Is Isaiah 59:20 talking about when Jesus came?

[Jacob]

Shalom.

Today is Rishon, 10-13, yom (day), until sundown.

Is Isaiah 59:20 talking about when Jesus came?

20 And a redeemer shall come to Zion, and to those who repent of transgression in Jacob, says the Lord. כ וּבָ֚א לְצִיּוֹן֙ גּוֹאֵ֔ל וּלְשָׁבֵ֥י פֶ֖שַׁע בְּיַֽעֲקֹ֑ב נְאֻ֖ם יְהֹוָֽה:

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Jacob,

Is Isaiah 59:20 talking about when Jesus came?
20 And a redeemer shall come to Zion, and to those who repent of transgression in Jacob, says the Lord.

The context suggests that this will be fulfilled at Jesus’ second coming, when the King of the North invades Israel Ezekiel 38, Daniel 11:40-45. But those that have trusted in him as a result of his first coming will also be redeemed and saved. V16 appears to be speaking of the salvation that Jesus accomplished at his first coming.
Isaiah 59:16-20 (KJV): 16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. 17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke. 18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence. 19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. 20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jacob]

Greetings Jacob,
The context suggests that this will be fulfilled at Jesus’ second coming, when the King of the North invades Israel Ezekiel 38, Daniel 11:40-45. But those that have trusted in him as a result of his first coming will also be redeemed and saved. V16 appears to be speaking of the salvation that Jesus accomplished at his first coming.
Isaiah 59:16-20 (KJV): 16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. 17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke. 18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence. 19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. 20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

Kind regards
Trevor

Do you have time to talk about this subject, what I am thinking, and what you said?

I simply wanted to point out that this is talking about when Jesus came.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Jacob,

Do you have time to talk about this subject, what I am thinking, and what you said?
I simply wanted to point out that this is talking about when Jesus came.

Yes, I would be interested in what you are thinking on this passage. I am willing to respond if the conversation is meaningful. I invite you to respond to the idea that Isaiah 59:16-20 could include both Jesus' first and second coming. I believe that Isaiah often draws upon the circumstances of his times, and some of the detail concerning the four kings that were contemporary with his prophecy. For example Isaiah 2:1-4 could be compared to Uzziah's time, Isaiah 6:1-10 with the King-Priest is set in contrast with Uzziah's usurpation and Isaiah 53 is patterned after Hezekiah's suffering and his restoration from death and victory over the Assyrian. Thus I believe that Isaiah 59:16-20 can have both aspects, patterned after Hezekiah and parallel to or similar to Isaiah 53.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Interplanner]

Shalom.

Today is Rishon, 10-13, yom (day), until sundown.

Is Isaiah 59:20 talking about when Jesus came?

20 And a redeemer shall come to Zion, and to those who repent of transgression in Jacob, says the Lord. כ וּבָ֚א לְצִיּוֹן֙ גּוֹאֵ֔ל וּלְשָׁבֵ֥י פֶ֖שַׁע בְּיַֽעֲקֹ֑ב נְאֻ֖ם יְהֹוָֽה:

Shalom.

Jacob

The Christian view is to interpret these things the way that the apostles did, because they were taught for 40 days after the resurrection about what it all meant. The 2500 quotes or allusions to the OT by the apostles in the NT docs are the result of that.

Paul uses the passage historically about Christ as Gospel. Christ said the new covenant was in his blood and being poured out or splattered in the Gospel event. The 'taking away of sin' referred to the debt of sin, not of every single ongoing act.

"All Israel" is saved 'in this way' ie, by believing this message. All Israel consists of all those who have faith, because Paul had said many times that it those who have faith like Abraham who are his seed, not those have have lineage from him. It would get way too confusing to go both routes, but some sects of the Christian church have tried to go both ways at the same time.

 

[Jacob]

Greetings again Jacob,Yes, I would be interested in what you are thinking on this passage. I am willing to respond if the conversation is meaningful. I invite you to respond to the idea that Isaiah 59:16-20 could include both Jesus' first and second coming. I believe that Isaiah often draws upon the circumstances of his times, and some of the detail concerning the four kings that were contemporary with his prophecy. For example Isaiah 2:1-4 could be compared to Uzziah's time, Isaiah 6:1-10 with the King-Priest is set in contrast with Uzziah's usurpation and Isaiah 53 is patterned after Hezekiah's suffering and his restoration from death and victory over the Assyrian. Thus I believe that Isaiah 59:16-20 can have both aspects, patterned after Hezekiah and parallel to or similar to Isaiah 53.

Kind regards
Trevor

Shalom.

Today is Sheni, 10-14, evening and morning, night and day, of this Jewish Calendar Calendar Day.

I must say that I am unfamiliar with what you are talking about and that I do not believe it to be true. You are referring to Isaiah, which I accept. Interpretation of what you read, or understanding what you read as you should and as it is meant to be understood is always good and always desired.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Jacob]

The Christian view is to interpret these things the way that the apostles did, because they were taught for 40 days after the resurrection about what it all meant. The 2500 quotes or allusions to the OT by the apostles in the NT docs are the result of that.

Paul uses the passage historically about Christ as Gospel. Christ said the new covenant was in his blood and being poured out or splattered in the Gospel event. The 'taking away of sin' referred to the debt of sin, not of every single ongoing act.

"All Israel" is saved 'in this way' ie, by believing this message. All Israel consists of all those who have faith, because Paul had said many times that it those who have faith like Abraham who are his seed, not those have have lineage from him. It would get way too confusing to go both routes, but some sects of the Christian church have tried to go both ways at the same time.

Shalom.

Today is Sheni, 10-14, evening and morning, night and day, of this Jewish Calendar Calendar Day.

I am unable to verify any of what you are saying. Sorry.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Jacob and Greetings Interplanner,

The Christian view is to interpret these things the way that the apostles did, because they were taught for 40 days after the resurrection about what it all meant. The 2500 quotes or allusions to the OT by the apostles in the NT docs are the result of that.

Paul uses the passage historically about Christ as Gospel. Christ said the new covenant was in his blood and being poured out or splattered in the Gospel event. The 'taking away of sin' referred to the debt of sin, not of every single ongoing act.

"All Israel" is saved 'in this way' ie, by believing this message. All Israel consists of all those who have faith, because Paul had said many times that it those who have faith like Abraham who are his seed, not those have have lineage from him. It would get way too confusing to go both routes, but some sects of the Christian church have tried to go both ways at the same time.

Perhaps you have an opinion on the following as you mention the 40 days instruction concerning the Kingdom of God after the resurrection. Did you notice that at the end of the 40 days that the Apostles asked Jesus concerning the restoration of the Kingdom to Israel. They did not ask whether this would be true, but rather when it would happen.
Acts 1:3,6-11 (KJV): 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Soon after, Peter spoke in the following terms that seem to reflect his understanding of what Jesus had said in response to their question. It also indicates his understanding of the message by the angels.
Acts 3:19-21, (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution (or, restoration) of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began

I must say that I am unfamiliar with what you are talking about and that I do not believe it to be true. You are referring to Isaiah, which I accept. Interpretation of what you read, or understanding what you read as you should and as it is meant to be understood is always good and always desired.

Seems we are on a different wavelength. I will be interested in your development of this subject despite our differences.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jacob]

Seems we are on a different wavelength. I will be interested in your development of this subject despite our differences.

Kind regards
Trevor

Shalom.

Then I guess I will try to develop something er make some developments or show or demonstrate development or give development here. I was not planning to do so, but I go where the conversation goes after making an opening post, and you have here requested or assumed such would occur or happen here in this thread. You contribution reveals your leanings, but you may have addressed too much of what I do not believe for me to answer you.

If Jesus came and that is what this is talking about then this is different than saying Messiah has not yet come or Messiah would fulfill this in His Second Coming or at in or with His return.

Shalom.

Jacob