ECT I Timothy 4: 1 and I Timothy 6: 20-21 and Loss of Christian Morality

[northwye]

I Timothy 4: 1-2 and I Timothy 6: 20-21 and Loss of Christian Morality

I am interested in I Timothy 4: 1-2, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2. Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;"

This is saying that those who claim to be Christians and born again, but follow and teach false doctrines, are led to weaken or lose their Christian morality.

Following another but more subtle scripture, I Timothy 6: 20-21, the present day popular Marxist version of the dialectic is being used in thought and in dialogue to overthrow the Thesis, as absolute Christian morality. "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:" "...and oppositions of science falsely so called:" is translated from "και αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως." αντιθεσεις transliterated is anti-theseis, or anti-thesis in the Hegelian dialectic. " και αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως." says the anti-thesis of so-called (or pseudo) knowledge." Not only can the dialectic as an attitude and belief changing procedure developed in the 20th century be used to overthrow absolute truth in Scripture by the false prophets, the same dialectic can be used to overthrow absolute Christian morality. This has happened in the political world and the dialectic church, having lost its absolute Christian morality, does not and cannot stop the process of the breakdown of common morality in the country.

The Left is now in the process of using a form of the dialectic to break down common morality so that the present administration can be thrown out of power and replaced by a Leftist administration or one less opposed to the agenda of the Left. While it is true that those of the Left who engage in public protests do not have the ability to dialogue well enough to be effective, there is a dialogue going on between the Left and the opposition to the Left - that is, between the Alternative and Conventional national media, between politicians and between common people on the two sides of this dialectic process. And this opposition. or dialectic, was in part set up by eight years of rule by a Marxist administration.

 

[northwye]

A friend said this on an Internet social media site yesterday: "Dialog and the small group took down the church. The gospel became a topic of debate."

Quarrel, or at least argument, would be better than debate above.

After Carl Rogers left the University of Wisconsin for Southern California in the sixties, he and his facilitators ran encounter groups, and worked on the members by use of a form of the dialectic in small groups, which were relatively cohesive. Though most preachers have not used the techniques of Group Dynamics and the Encounter Group psychologists, Rick Warren has used these techniques in small groups.

See: http://www.bpnews.net/21031/firstperson-relationships-the-glue-that-holds-your-church-together

"I don't have the space to give a detailed explanation of our small group strategy and structure. Let me just say this: Small groups are the most effective way of closing the back door of your church. We never worry about losing people who are connected to a small group. We know they've built relationships which truly make them a part of the body." Rick Warren

Something like the Marxist dialectic is used in Rick Warren's small groups to mold the people into accepting Warren's mega church doctrines. Warren came out of the Southern Baptists and has high regards for Southern Baptist preacher W.A. Criswell, who was an early pioneer of the mega church movement. In the sixties, W.A. Criswell led the group who made the Southern Baptist Convention entirely dispensationalist. And he was the leader of the movement in that Convention to get rid of the old Southern Baptist doctrine of the priesthood of the believer. Dispensationalists cannot accept such a doctrine because in dispensationalism there must be a member of the clergy who tries to make sure that everyone in the church accepts the correct doctrines.

It is not surprising that the mega church movement under Rick Warren came out of a dispensationalist outfit, because by the time Warren began his big church movement, most evangelical denominations were dispensationalist and after 1948 this theology could be called Christian Zionist.

 

[Danoh]

northwye, what "Dispy" have you attempted to go back and forth, merely comparing notes with?

True, some do conclude right off that anyone who does not hold their view who even attempts to explore different understandings with them is picking a fight.

Doesn't mean all Dispies are that narrow minded.

Consider that you might be being as one-sided as those you are going on about having had whatever negative, one-sided experiences you may have had with :think:

 

[northwye]

In the dialectic or opposition between two positions, the Thesis and the Anti-thesis, a big tactic is to try to change the subject of argument, which is now called the "narrative."

The topic or narrative on this thread is the meanings in I Timothy 4: 2 and I Timothy 6: 20-21- that being in false doctrines is correlated with a loss of Christian morality and one process by which the loss of Christian morality comes about is by the Marxist version of the dialectic, and the ancient Greek version of the dialectic is briefly mentioned in I Timothy 6: 20-21.

Preterism is not necessarily a part of popular Christian false doctrines, which is true of dispensationalism-Christian Zionism and the "name it and claim it" "or get rich Gospel", which often goes along with dispensationalism, as does the mega church movement to some extent. But preterism, which is more scholarly than dispensationmalism in its dealing with the beginnings of the New Covenant, but is wrong on the claim that NT prophecy is limited in fulfillment to the First Century, also uses the dialectic process and might also lead to a lowering of Christian morality.

To defend and promote Christian Zionism against the meanings of I Timothy 4: 2 and Timothy 6: 20-21 without side stepping and trying to change the dialogue is to deal with the issue of the conflict between some NT scripture and the doctrines of Christian Zionism. But then again, there may be little agreement between Christian Zionists and other Christians on which scriptures are to be looked at.

 

[northwye]

See: http://truthwatchers.com/education-a-brief-history-and-cause-of-decadency-part-4/

"Central planners of any period despise the dialectic because it gets in the way of efficiently broadcasting “one right way” to do things. Half a century ago Bertrand Russell remarked that the United States was the only major country on earth that deliberately avoided teaching its children to think dialectically."

"America is now fully given over to dialectic thinking for the past few generations. The problem is evident, even as John Taylor Gatto expresses how such thinking affected the Congregationalist. “They [the Congregationalists] even changed their conservative ways to the point where Massachusetts gained a national reputation as the most liberal state in the Union…. Something mysterious inside the structure of Congregationalism worked to have them abandon some of the exclusivity adherence to Biblical elite dogma had taught them.” He also mentions, “If you consider the tremendous stresses the dialectical process sets up anyway-where all people are their own priests, their own final master- it’s hard to see how a congregational society can do otherwise.”

See:

"http://authorityresearch.com/

"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." Ephesians 2:2,

Facilitator's of 'change,' i.e., "group psychotherapist's"—those of dialectic 'reasoning,' i.e., those initiating and sustaining a "shadow government" of philosopher kings (the vanguard party), with all department (including government), education, business, and religious "group" meetings dialoguing opinions to a consensus (a soviet), regarding how the world "is," i.e., still subject to the father's/Father's authority ("prejudiced," divided), how it "ought" to be, i.e., "of and for self" (affirming the child's carnal nature, i.e., "human nature"), and how it "can" be, i.e., "of and for" liberté, égalité, fraternité (united as one), with everyone initiating and sustaining the process of 'change,' i.e., negating the father's/Father's authority wherever they go—see your children as being their children, your property as being their property, your business as being their business, i.e., the world and all that is in it, including you, as being theirs, as the women in the garden "saw" the "forbidden tree" as being her tree. What they see they own. You therefore must support (pay) them in dues, permits, taxes, tariffs, and tithes in order for them to oversee you ("sight based management"), making sure that you are taking proper care of what is "theirs."

Dean Gotcher's writing is dense and if you are not familiar with it, you have to parse it
out to understand it even a little.

More of Gotcher's dense writing: "You can only preach and teach the truth, discussing it with others in order to persuade them, i.e., in order get them to accept it as is (the "old school" method of education)."

"To dialogue it with others is to turn it into an opinion, making it (and you) equal with that which is not true (only "seems to be" true, i.e., an opinion), thereby making it (and you) ever subject to 'change.' "Black is black and white is white. Neither torture, maltreatment nor intimidation can change a fact. To argue the point… serves no useful purpose." (P.O.W. Major David F. MacGhee responding to brainwashing attempts by the Communist North Korean's, who were trying to get him to replace a didactic "right-wrong," facts based paradigm, i.e., way of feeling, thinking, acting, and relation with others with a dialectical "opinion," feelings based paradigm, making truth ever subject to 'change.' January 19th, 1953) "We recognize the point of view that truth and knowledge are only relative and that there are no hard and fast truths which exist for all time and places." (Benjamin S. Bloom, Taxonomy of Educational Objectives. The Classification of Educational Goals. Handbook 1: Cognitive Domain, p. 32) All teachers are "certified" and schools "accredited" today (including "Christian") based upon their knowledge and use of what are called "Bloom's Taxonomies." Karl Marx advocated the use of physical force in order to achieve the same ideals. "In the eyes of the dialectic philosophy, nothing is established for all times, nothing is absolute or sacred." (Karl Marx) The agenda from the 50's on was to take it, i.e., the process of 'change,' i.e., the dialectic process, i.e., i.e., the dialoguing of opinions to a consensus, i.e., the "win-win" attitude" into the classroom—merging Marx and Freud, i.e., socialism and psychology, i.e., social issues and personal issues, creating "group psychotherapy"—using the classroom to change the way students think and act. Through the children's participation in the dialoguing of their opinions to a consensus, in the "group grade" classroom, their way of thinking was 'changed,' resulting in them taking it back into the home, questioning, challenging, disrespecting, defying their parent's authority, i.e., attaching their parent's, creating conflict and tension in the home (not only between themselves and their parents but between the parent's themselves as well) until the parent's, in frustration, turned to "group psychotherapy," i.e., the "help" of a facilitator of 'change,' who in turn, by getting the parent's to participate in the dialoguing of their opinions to a consensus, 'changed' they way they thought and acted as well. According to Theodor Adorno (Benjamin Bloom's "Weltanschauung"), if a world of 'change' (the so called "new" world order) was to become a reality all government departments and agencies and secular and religious institutions must use "social-environmental forces to change the parent's behavior toward the child." (Theodor Adorno, The Authoritarian Personality) By all appearances it "seems to" have worked."

"The dialoguing of opinions, i.e., of everyone's "feelings," i.e., their desires and dissatisfactions, i.e., their perception of the 'moment,' i.e., of the current (personal-social) situation, overcomes the affect their parent's preaching, teaching, and discussion has upon them, overcoming divisiveness of "positions held" (belief, i.e., "private convictions"), allowing consensus (oneness based upon "feeling") to be developed, uniting everyone upon their common "self interests," i.e., that which they all have in common. Cell groups and youth groups, using the dialoguing of opinions to arrive at a consensus is the hallmark of "Church Growth," "Emergent Church," and all other (current and future) socialist engineered (facilitated) religious programs, using "the group's" "feelings" of the 'moment' to create unity (worldly peace and socialist harmony)."

But if you study Gotcher's writing, you may began to understand how he views the use of psychological manipulations, using the dialectic procedure, with the light of scripture. Gotcher is a preacher as well as a scholar, and that is hard for a church Christian to began to understand.

 

[Nang]

Interesting posts . . This is more prevalent in the visible churches of our day than most are aware.

 

[northwye]

Yes,the dialectic and its results help to dim the light of scripture to many in the churches.

The dialectic is part of Marxism, both the Bolshevism of the Old Soviet Union and Transformational Marxism. The foundations of the Western culture - which are Biblical Christianity and the family - have to be torn down before a totalitarian world government and collectivism can be completely set up. The dialectic is par of this tearing down.

 

[northwye]

"America is now fully given over to dialectic thinking for the past few generations."

The World War II and Korean War generations, or age groups, were not given over to dialectic thinking. Dialectic thinking can be dated to the time when the Transformational Marxists began to have an influence in our major universities. Theodore W. Adorno was at the University of California at Berkeley, and Herbert Marcuse was at Brandeis University. These were both Frankfurters from Germany. Carl Rogers was at the University of Wisconsin and Abraham H. Maslow was at Brandeis also. Both of them were Americans.

The country began to be converted to dialectical thinking in the late fifties and more so in the sixties and seventies.

More specifically, dialectic thinking can be dated back to the time when the two books edited by Benjamin Bloom,Taxonomy of Educational Goal Objectives Cognitive Domain in 1956 and Affective Domain in 1964.

There were two phases of the Baby Boomer generation, and the younger Boomers were likely more under the influence of Bloom's Educational Goal Objectives, in which all public school teachers had to be certified, than the older Boomers. The children of the Boomers, as a group, were brainwashed by Transormational Marxism.