ECT How About That - Grace IS Conditional...

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Danoh

New member
2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Earlier today, I ran across two Believers I know, in the midst of insulting one another.

Immediately, each insisted I take their side.

When I asked how the whole thing started, each began to blame the other.

And each talked about how each was just giving the other what really amounted to a payback for a perceived injury.

'Well I'll be,' I said.

'What do ya know; the grace of God is conditional after all...'

Both these individuals hold to the eternal security of the Believer.

Which is basically the issue that God's grace toward us in His Son is unconditional.

Both became silent...for a minute.

Til one of em finally said "Well he started it" and off they went on each other once more, lol.

A moment later, one of their Pastor's showed up.

At which point they were both all about "praise the Lord this" and "God bless that..."

Cracked me up even more...

At which point, I went about my day...
 
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Danoh

New member
jamie said:
Not as long as I stay within the covenant.
Click to expand...

Not the point of the OP.

But at the same time; it is.

In the sense that although the point of the OP is that seeing as His grace towards us was unconditional; is ours in His stead just as unconditional towards others, 2 Cor. 5 - obviously your view appears to be that His grace towards you is conditional.

Thus, in contrast to the following, your possible view on that should be addressed...

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

How so; in what sense?

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Come again?

Romans 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

Yeah, and?

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

And that is not all...

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Oh; how so?

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

But wait; there's more to this amazing, unconditional grace of God towards us, in His Son...

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

In conclusion...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

In contrast to...

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

So there is that, in contrast to your possible view.
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Danoh said:
So there is that, in contrast to your possible view.
Click to expand...

And from one of God's friends there is this:

"Hide Your face from my sins,
And blot out all my iniquities.
Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me."
(Psalm 51:9-11)
 
D

Danoh

New member
jamie said:
And from one of God's friends there is this:

"Hide Your face from my sins,
And blot out all my iniquities.
Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me."
(Psalm 51:9-11)
Click to expand...

The Scripture does not work that way - one's picking and choosing what ever appeals to one.

The Psalmists' perspective had been...

Psalms 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

But now...

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

You are basically adding to the finished work of the Cross the Psalmist had not been privileged to rest in.

Your concern is valid.

Your solution - the Law's Performance Based Acceptance - not so.

Not this side of God's Grace towards you in His Son at the Cross.

This side of that; Grace has it's own system for dealing with sin....

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
 
D

Danoh

New member
jamie said:
David had sinned and he made an appeal to the Most High.
Click to expand...

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

But hey, if you "feel closer to God" putting yourself under the Law: as David had been; have at it.

I think I'll rest in...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

And in...

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11-12.
 
Bradley D

Bradley D

Well-known member
I had to approach God for His Grace (Heb. 4:16). Then I must continue to grow in "grace and knowledge" of our Lord Jesus (2 Peter 3:18). I do not believe everyone who claims to have God's grace actually has it.
 
T

Truster

New member
Bradley D said:
I had to approach God for His Grace (Heb. 4:16). Then I must continue to grow in "grace and knowledge" of our Lord Jesus (2 Peter 3:18). I do not believe everyone who claims to have God's grace actually has it.
Click to expand...

Hebrews 4:16 is directed at the regenerate, repentant sinners and not at the unregenerate.
 
Jamie Gigliotti

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
Danoh said:
2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Earlier today, I ran across two Believers I know, in the midst of insulting one another.

Immediately, each insisted I take their side.

When I asked how the whole thing started, each began to blame the other.

And each talked about how each was just giving the other what really amounted to a payback for a perceived injury.

'Well I'll be,' I said.

'What do ya know; the grace of God is conditional after all...'

Both these individuals hold to the eternal security of the Believer.

Which is basically the issue that God's grace toward us in His Son is unconditional.

Both became silent...for a minute.

Til one of em finally said "Well he started it" and off they went on each other once more, lol.

A moment later, one of their Pastor's showed up.

At which point they were both all about "praise the Lord this" and "God bless that..."

Cracked me up even more...

At which point, I went about my day...
Click to expand...

So to be clear, you find it wrong that those who profess to be "saved" unconditionally don't offer unconditional grace, but also that they have no obligation to do so??

If we are worried about failing conditions upon grace, we don't have grace.

When you have God's love and grace you freely, gladly give it.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

New member
Jamie Gigliotti said:
So to be clear, you find it wrong that those who profess to be "saved" unconditionally don't offer unconditional grace, but also that they have no obligation to do so??

If we are worried about failing conditions upon grace, we don't have grace.

When you have God's love and grace you freely, gladly give it.
Click to expand...
God does not indiscriminately grant His grace.

He only grants His grace to those people that please Him.

If you want God's grace, find out what pleases Him and do it.

If you do not want God's grace, then continue to believe that God gives His grace to those that do not please Him.
 
P

Potter's Clay

New member
Remember:
Romans 9:21 explains that one vessel of clay was made with honor, while another vessel that was made from the same lump, only knew destruction. We are like the clay described in Romans 9. We were dead in trespasses and sins only having the freedom to choose which sin to commit (Ephesians 2:1). God's unconditional Election was necessary in order to grant us mercy.


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