Hebrew Calendar, Weeks, Days

chair

Well-known member
The Hebrew calendar is drawing a lot of attention here recently. I’d like to straighten things out.
1. The Hebrew calendar is solar-lunar. This is not an unusual arrangement- the Chinese, for example, have a calendar of this type. The months are set by the moon, and an extra leap month is sometimes added to the year, so that the months match the seasons. Specifically, Passover needs to be in the spring.
2. The new moon, i.e. the start of a new month, was originally set by observation. Witnesses would come to Jerusalem and report that they saw the new moon, then the news would be spread by messenger or bonfire signals to Jewish communities all over the world. In the time of Hillel II (~350 AD) this was changed, and the calendar was (and is to this day) set by means of a calculation. This is not a secret, and there is clear evidence in Jewish sources for this.
3. A complete day in the Hebrew calendar starts in the evening, and ends the following evening. This is not an issue for Jews- we follow our tradition. But for Christians this apparently is very important. So a few comments are in order:
a. Pay attention to the fact that Jesus did not live in Old Testament times. He lived in early Rabbinic times. So even if Moses or Joshua started and ended their days in the morning, it was not relevant in the time of Jesus.
b. The verses in the Old Testament do not seem completely consistent. On the one hand, Yom Kippur starts in the evening, and on the other hand one needs to finish eating a sacrifice by morning. When we speak about when a day starts, the real question is when holidays or the Sabbath starts- not the technicalities of a sacrifice.
c. Be very careful discounting Jewish traditions regarding days and calendars. These things do not change easily.
d. I have seen multiple sources that claim that the Hebrew day started in the morning in Biblical times, and later shifted to the evening. The assumption was that there was a shift from Egyptian influence to Babylonian influence. Be very careful when reading these sources- they are speculations of academics, which are fun, but not necessarily accurate. They certainly are not proof of anything, and I have yet to see one that brought actual evidence to light.
4. Finally, there is one gentleman here who insists that the Sabbath day was linked to the New Moon day. It is a fine theory, except that it doesn’t make sense. The Sabbath commemorates God’s creation of the world- six days creation, one day rest. This works if the week is always seven days long. It does not work if the week is different lengths, 7,8 or even 9 days, depending on the month.
Part of the source of this confusion is reading the word “Sabbath” to always mean the weekly Sabbath. It sometimes means “rest day”- as one can see from Yom Kippur, which is called a Sabbath- even though it is on the tenth of the month.
The Roman calendar isn’t relevant, though it constantly gets dragged into this. Let the Romans explain why and how they shifted to a seven day week. If you think the Jews shifted- bring real proof- not speculation. And see 3c above: “Be very careful discounting Jewish traditions regarding days and calendars. These things do not change easily.“
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
The Hebrew calendar is drawing a lot of attention here recently. I’d like to straighten things out.
1. The Hebrew calendar is solar-lunar. This is not an unusual arrangement- the Chinese, for example, have a calendar of this type. The months are set by the moon, and an extra leap month is sometimes added to the year, so that the months match the seasons. Specifically, Passover needs to be in the spring.
2. The new moon, i.e. the start of a new month, was originally set by observation. Witnesses would come to Jerusalem and report that they saw the new moon, then the news would be spread by messenger or bonfire signals to Jewish communities all over the world. In the time of Hillel II (~350 AD) this was changed, and the calendar was (and is to this day) set by means of a calculation. This is not a secret, and there is clear evidence in Jewish sources for this.
3. A complete day in the Hebrew calendar starts in the evening, and ends the following evening. This is not an issue for Jews- we follow our tradition. But for Christians this apparently is very important. So a few comments are in order:
a. Pay attention to the fact that Jesus did not live in Old Testament times. He lived in early Rabbinic times. So even if Moses or Joshua started and ended their days in the morning, it was not relevant in the time of Jesus.
b. The verses in the Old Testament do not seem completely consistent. On the one hand, Yom Kippur starts in the evening, and on the other hand one needs to finish eating a sacrifice by morning. When we speak about when a day starts, the real question is when holidays or the Sabbath starts- not the technicalities of a sacrifice.
c. Be very careful discounting Jewish traditions regarding days and calendars. These things do not change easily.
d. I have seen multiple sources that claim that the Hebrew day started in the morning in Biblical times, and later shifted to the evening. The assumption was that there was a shift from Egyptian influence to Babylonian influence. Be very careful when reading these sources- they are speculations of academics, which are fun, but not necessarily accurate. They certainly are not proof of anything, and I have yet to see one that brought actual evidence to light.
4. Finally, there is one gentleman here who insists that the Sabbath day was linked to the New Moon day. It is a fine theory, except that it doesn’t make sense. The Sabbath commemorates God’s creation of the world- six days creation, one day rest. This works if the week is always seven days long. It does not work if the week is different lengths, 7,8 or even 9 days, depending on the month.
Part of the source of this confusion is reading the word “Sabbath” to always mean the weekly Sabbath. It sometimes means “rest day”- as one can see from Yom Kippur, which is called a Sabbath- even though it is on the tenth of the month.
The Roman calendar isn’t relevant, though it constantly gets dragged into this. Let the Romans explain why and how they shifted to a seven day week. If you think the Jews shifted- bring real proof- not speculation. And see 3c above: “Be very careful discounting Jewish traditions regarding days and calendars. These things do not change easily.“
Shalom.

Hi chair. I am a Jew, Jewish, of Israel, a proselyte and a convert to Judaism and Israel. I read, study, observe, keep, and teach the Torah. Jesus Christ, Yeshua HaMashiach, Yeshua Messiah, taught that to be great in the kingdom of heaven one must keep and teach the Commandments. This is actually how I became a Jew, accepting the covenant upon myself. I also believe that the New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah, God's Law written on minds and hearts in Yeshua Messiah, as we find in Jeremiah.

I am of Israel, and a citizen of the United States of America. It is day here. The calendar day begins in the evening with evening and morning making a calendar day. Night and day.

Today is Chamishi, 8-20. We follow Israel.

Shalom.

Jacob
 
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