GOP strategist Roger Stone convicted on 7 counts

The Barbarian

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Republican operative Roger Stone was found guilty Friday of all seven counts against him, including witness tampering and making false statements.

Prosecutors portrayed Stone, 67, as a serial liar who tried to bully witnesses into not cooperating with authorities. They charged Stone, a confidant of President Donald Trump, with making false statements, obstruction and witness tampering in a case that was an offshoot of special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia investigation.

Stone is the sixth Trump aide or adviser to be convicted of charges brought as part of Mueller's probe.

His sentencing was set for Feb. 6, and he faces up to 20 years in prison. The jury deliberated for two days.
https://www.businessinsider.com/roger-stone-convicted-false-statements-witness-tampering-2019-11
 
Clete

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The Barbarian said:
Republican operative Roger Stone was found guilty Friday of all seven counts against him, including witness tampering and making false statements.

Prosecutors portrayed Stone, 67, as a serial liar who tried to bully witnesses into not cooperating with authorities. They charged Stone, a confidant of President Donald Trump, with making false statements, obstruction and witness tampering in a case that was an offshoot of special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia investigation.

Stone is the sixth Trump aide or adviser to be convicted of charges brought as part of Mueller's probe.

His sentencing was set for Feb. 6, and he faces up to 20 years in prison. The jury deliberated for two days.
https://www.businessinsider.com/roge...pering-2019-11
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All of which were "process crimes" and come nowhere close to suggesting that Trump committed any crime associated with the investigation that spawned these process crimes.

That isn't to suggest that Stone didn't commit these crimes or that he shouldn't be punished for them, but implying Trump's guilt by association is the intent of celebrating someone being convicted of crimes that would never have had an opportunity to exist if not for a fraudulent "investigation" into something everyone involved knew hadn't happened and that's just not how a civilized society works.

In short...

Sending someone to jail because they were trying to thrwart your frame up job isn't exactly what I would call a moral victory.

Clete
 
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Clete said:
All of which were "process crimes"
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Yep. It's kind of a cliche that the original crime isn't what gets them; it's the cover-up. They never learn, do they?

and come nowhere close to suggesting that Trump committed any crime associated with the investigation that spawned these process crimes.
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If Russiagate sends Trump to prison, it will be for the "process crime" of obstruction. It's the only crime that Mueller could prove, but he documented that Trump attempted to obstruct the investigation several times. Al Capone went to prison, not for killings or bootlegging, but for the process crime of hiding his money from the IRS.

That isn't to suggest that Stone didn't commit these crimes or that he shouldn't be punished for them, but implying Trump's guilt by association is the intent of celebrating someone being convicted of crimes that would never have had an opportunity to exist if not for a fraudulent "investigation" into something everyone involved knew hadn't happened
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A half-dozen US intelligence agencies have documented that it did happen. The investigation was just "what did Trump know, and when did he know it?" It's ironic that they might get away with the crime, but they get hung up on perjury and obstruction. Stone really cooked his goose by pressuring someone else to lie to investigators. If nothing happened, it's hard to see why these guys would risk spending the rest of their lives in prison, trying to cover it up.

The Constitution makes it clear that the president is not above the law.

That's just how a civilized society works..

Sending someone to jail because they were trying to thrwart your frame up job isn't exactly what I would call a moral victory.
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Sending someone to prison for obstructing justice, making false statements to investigators, and tampering with witness testimony, is always a good thing. The bad guys need repeated reminders that they will get caught and they will be convicted for that kind of thing. The irony is that if Trump actually knew and cooperated with Putin and Stone, we so far can't prove it. But Mueller clearly demonstrated that Trump tried to obstruct the investigation,and that's a felony in itself.

Which is still not the biggest threat he has, now that his attempt to extort political aid from Ukraine by withholding military aid, has been exposed.
 
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Clete said:
All of which were "process crimes" and come nowhere close to suggesting that Trump committed any crime associated with the investigation that spawned these process crimes.
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Were Michael Cohen, Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, and George Papadopoulos sent to jail for "process crimes?" Will Michael Flynn be sent to prison for same when he is sentenced?

Clete said:
Clete
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The Barbarian said:
It's never the original crime that gets them. It's always the cover-up. "Process crimes."
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You can't cover up what never happened.

Besides, is that really the sort of society you want to live in, where the interogators, who are allowed to lie to you, can throw you in jail for doing the same?
 
The Barbarian

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Barbarian observes:
It's never the original crime that gets them. It's always the cover-up. "Process crimes."

Clete said:
You can't cover up what never happened.
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Which brings us to the point. Why on Earth would all these people commit felonies to cover up something that never happened? Why would someone perjure himself, tamper with witnesses, and all the other felonious behavior to cover up nothing? Doesn't make any sense, does it?

Besides, is that really the sort of society you want to live in, where the interogators, who are allowed to lie to you,
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You realize that police are not only allowed to lie to you, they are trained to do so?

can throw you in jail for doing the same?
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Try lying to a police officer concerning an investigation. That's a felony, too. Even if he lies to you about it, he's in the clear. While I can see circumstances that might warrant it, the system is clearly skewed too far toward police power.

But these criminals didn't have to lie; they could merely have refused to say anything.
 
Clete

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The Barbarian said:
Which brings us to the point. Why on Earth would all these people commit felonies to cover up something that never happened? Why would someone perjure himself, tamper with witnesses, and all the other felonious behavior to cover up nothing? Doesn't make any sense, does it?
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No, it doesn't because they weren't and they didn't.

There was nothing to cover up. They weren't completely stupid though. A fried egg has enough brains to figure out that Trump was being framed. They foolishly thought that they were helping to prevent a corrupt government from succeeding in their frame up job against a political enemy. What they should have done was kept their mouths shut.
 
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Barbarian observes:
Which brings us to the point. Why on Earth would all these people commit felonies to cover up something that never happened? Why would someone perjure himself, tamper with witnesses, and all the other felonious behavior to cover up nothing? Doesn't make any sense, does it?

Clete said:
No, it doesn't because they weren't and they didn't.
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They were convicted of that, or in some cases, pleaded guilty to it. That's not debatable. They got caught doing it, and mostly, they admitted it.

There was nothing to cover up.
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If there's nothing, it's odd that they would commit all those felonies, trying to cover it up. That's pretty stupid, if you ask me.

They weren't completely stupid though. A fried egg has enough brains to figure out that Trump was being framed.
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If so, lying to investigators and committing perjury were probably really bad ways to show innocence.

They foolishly thought that they were helping to prevent a corrupt government from succeeding in their frame up job against a political enemy. What they should have done was kept their mouths shut.
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Notice that the people who derailed the frame-up are now heroes:
iu

iu
 
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Clete said:
All of which were "process crimes" and come nowhere close to suggesting that Trump committed any crime associated with the investigation that spawned these process crimes.

That isn't to suggest that Stone didn't commit these crimes or that he shouldn't be punished for them, but implying Trump's guilt by association is the intent of celebrating someone being convicted of crimes that would never have had an opportunity to exist if not for a fraudulent "investigation" into something everyone involved knew hadn't happened and that's just not how a civilized society works.

In short...

Sending someone to jail because they were trying to thrwart your frame up job isn't exactly what I would call a moral victory.

Clete
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Stone's legal problems stem from his involvement with "Wikileaks" which had everything to do with Trump winning the 2016 Election!

The Mueller Report, that "Clete" chooses to characterize as a fraudulent investigation, was initiated by his Republican appointee as Deputy Attorney General and was conducted by Robert Mueller, a registered Republican, a widely respected FBI Director who had served under both Republican and Democratic Administrations!

In the words of Speaker Nancy Pelosi, "all roads lead to Vladimir Putin" and for whatever reason this President appears determined to prove her right!
 
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1_fyJCZSvXaZzrspYasgjk9A.jpeg
ok doser said:
Biden extorted a million dollar bribe from Ukraine and laundered the money through his son.

Fact

not frame-up
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Claiming that its a "FACT" doesn't make a fact unless there is proof - this President wouldn't have been involved in requesting the leader of the Ukraine initiate an investigation if that proof already existed!

What is a fact is that Giuliani's Russian associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, were arrested at Dulles Airport and charged with "laundering" foreign (Russian) contributions into Republican campaigns - a felony!

Then there is the small matter of the President's own personal lawyer receiving a $500000 retainer from his 2 indicted associates for unspecified services - now its being reported that Lev and Igor were also attempting to establish their own oil and gas company in the Ukraine with the financing coming from Russian oligarchs!
 
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That frame-up fell apart some time ago. There's no evidence that either Biden did anything illegal.

But in the absence of any other possible diversion, they do what they can with what they have.

"Look at all the Trump criminals who have been sent to prison."

"Yahbut, we think Biden..."

Nice try.
 
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