ECT God's ways are higher than our ways?

[HikaruSwift]

What does this really mean?
Whenever I'm talking about God to other Christians and trying to define Gods abilities or character, it always comes to, "his ways are higher than ours," "we can't understand," or, "don't limit God."

Typically these answers come up when I question God knowing the future exhaustively, or if God is outside of time.

A conversation would usually go like this.
Me: If God knows the future completely, then whatever man does is set (without us knowing) and we have no ability to change the course of our future. (ex. people who will get married in the future, have to get married no matter what.)
If God knows the future completely, then why does he get mad at us humans when we disobey, when he already knows what our actions will be? He was growing angry at the Israelite's because time after time they would stray away and he could not understand their repeated wickedness. (in the time when moses was leading them)
So I would finish with saying I don't think God knows the future completely, but he is the smartest person alive and the strongest person, so he could easily make predictions and make them come to pass.

Them: HIS WAYS ARE HIGHER THAN OUR WAYS! YOU'RE LIMITING GOD IF YOU SAY HE CAN'T KNOW THE FUTURE. We don't understand time the same way he does. A thousand years is like a day for God. Etc.

I always get stuck in these conversations because I don't have a very good answer yet.
But in my opinion,
If God knows the future, can he do something different than the future he sees?
A believer who does say God knows the future completely would be forced to say, "No, because he doesn't make mistakes so he would have no need to change what he's going to do."

So they themselves are limiting God, or this excuse of "limiting God" works for both sides of the debate. It works for my side and theirs.

WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Interplanner]

What does this really mean?
Whenever I'm talking about God to other Christians and trying to define Gods abilities or character, it always comes to, "his ways are higher than ours," "we can't understand," or, "don't limit God."

Typically these answers come up when I question God knowing the future exhaustively, or if God is outside of time.

A conversation would usually go like this.
Me: If God knows the future completely, then whatever man does is set (without us knowing) and we have no ability to change the course of our future. (ex. people who will get married in the future, have to get married no matter what.)
If God knows the future completely, then why does he get mad at us humans when we disobey, when he already knows what our actions will be? He was growing angry at the Israelite's because time after time they would stray away and he could not understand their repeated wickedness. (in the time when moses was leading them)
So I would finish with saying I don't think God knows the future completely, but he is the smartest person alive and the strongest person, so he could easily make predictions and make them come to pass.

Them: HIS WAYS ARE HIGHER THAN OUR WAYS! YOU'RE LIMITING GOD IF YOU SAY HE CAN'T KNOW THE FUTURE. We don't understand time the same way he does. A thousand years is like a day for God. Etc.

I always get stuck in these conversations because I don't have a very good answer yet.
But in my opinion,
If God knows the future, can he do something different than the future he sees?
A believer who does say God knows the future completely would be forced to say, "No, because he doesn't make mistakes so he would have no need to change what he's going to do."

So they themselves are limiting God, or this excuse of "limiting God" works for both sides of the debate. It works for my side and theirs.

WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you look at the surrounding passages where this line from Isaiah was written, you'll find that it actually has to do with looking beyond the state and people of Israel. Israel was on its way down, but God's ways were not confined to what could be done in and through Israel. (The mission to the nations would still be launched through Jews, but that's not the same as the state, land or people of Israel). So as Isaiah looked at the miserable performance of Israel, he had to say that if God was going to bring the Messiah Servant of ch 53 and accompllish all those other things in his mission to the nations, His ways must be higher than our (Israel's) ways.

 

[Clete]

What does this really mean?
Whenever I'm talking about God to other Christians and trying to define Gods abilities or character, it always comes to, "his ways are higher than ours," "we can't understand," or, "don't limit God."

Typically these answers come up when I question God knowing the future exhaustively, or if God is outside of time.

A conversation would usually go like this.
Me: If God knows the future completely, then whatever man does is set (without us knowing) and we have no ability to change the course of our future. (ex. people who will get married in the future, have to get married no matter what.)
If God knows the future completely, then why does he get mad at us humans when we disobey, when he already knows what our actions will be? He was growing angry at the Israelite's because time after time they would stray away and he could not understand their repeated wickedness. (in the time when moses was leading them)
So I would finish with saying I don't think God knows the future completely, but he is the smartest person alive and the strongest person, so he could easily make predictions and make them come to pass.

Them: HIS WAYS ARE HIGHER THAN OUR WAYS! YOU'RE LIMITING GOD IF YOU SAY HE CAN'T KNOW THE FUTURE. We don't understand time the same way he does. A thousand years is like a day for God. Etc.

I always get stuck in these conversations because I don't have a very good answer yet.
But in my opinion,
If God knows the future, can he do something different than the future he sees?
A believer who does say God knows the future completely would be forced to say, "No, because he doesn't make mistakes so he would have no need to change what he's going to do."

So they themselves are limiting God, or this excuse of "limiting God" works for both sides of the debate. It works for my side and theirs.

WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is nothing to do. It's a trick! It's a lie!

The fact that God's ways are higher than our ways doesn't mean that God gets to be irrational or that we must be prepared to accept the irrational, which is precisely what those who play that trump card are telling you to do when they play it.

If God's ways being higher than our ways meant that we must accept the irrational then ANY DOCTRINE AT ALL is potentially true!

- Is David Koresh the second coming of Christ?

-- Well, he's dead, so no, I don't think he is!

- That's human reasoning! God's ways our higher than our ways! It's not a matter of understanding, it's a matter of faith!​

Such anti-intellectualism is rampant. And not just throughout cults like the Branch-Davidians but throughout the Christian church and it is precisely because of the mis-use of the simple fact that God is not a mere human and does things and has things on His mind that we cannot fathom.



As for your thoughts concerning God's foreknowledge. You're quite right! God cannot know the future in the sense that the Calvinists and Arminians believe. The notion isn't even biblical at all. In fact, it was imported into Christianity from Greek philosophy (Plato) by Augustine in the 5th century. Before that, everyone knew better. Not only that, but the notion is in conflict with the idea that God is just, as your post suggests.

I recommend that you read through this thread...

Openness Theology - Does God Know Your Entire Future?

Here's the bottom line.

God is truth. The truth is not irrational (by definition). Therefore God is not irrational.

Simple. Reject any teaching that suggests otherwise.

Resting in Him,
Clete