Gods indictment on the natural human heart of man !

[beloved57]

Jer 17:9

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Now understand something the heart here speaks to the mind, will, and affections of a man. Its the hebrew word leb and means:

inner man, mind, will, heart, the inner man, indefinite the soul, comprehending mind, affections and will

Now the Mystery to this Truth is that this describes the heart of all natural men, even if they are religious, moral and upright. We tend to think this describes bank robbers, fornicators and drunkards, and drug dealers and users, which it does, however it includes good moral decent people with excellent high standards.

 

[beloved57]

The natural heart of man is desperately wicked ! Even when he is most sincere and religious, with good morals and behavior. This is a Mystery to the carnal man, to him this cannot be. Jer 17:9

9 [FONT=&quot]The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

The word in hebrew for desperately wicked is [/FONT]anash and means:

incurable which means:

not curable; that cannot be cured, remedied, or corrected: not susceptible to change

By it being incurable and not subject to change, its incapable of godly repentance

So the natural heart of man from the womb is Rom 2:5

5 [FONT=&quot]But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Its hard and impenitent towards God. The word impenitent [/FONT] ametanoétos means:

unrepentant, its without repentance. So repentance [towards God] cant be found in the natural human heart of man ! It cant change !

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings beloved57,

The natural heart of man is desperately wicked ! Even when he is most sincere and religious, with good morals and behavior.

Have you considered the context of Jeremiah 17:9, that is Jeremiah 17:5-8. These verses seem to be an echo and expansion of Psalm 1, which sets before us the two ways, the way of the righteous and the way of the wicked. The heart of the righteous has been transformed by a meditation on the word. Jesus is the supreme example, but also David, the Psalmist, who was a man after God's own heart.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beloved57]

Greetings beloved57,Have you considered the context of Jeremiah 17:9, that is Jeremiah 17:5-8. These verses seem to be an echo and expansion of Psalm 1, which sets before us the two ways, the way of the righteous and the way of the wicked. The heart of the righteous has been transformed by a meditation on the word. Jesus is the supreme example, but also David, the Psalmist, who was a man after God's own heart.

Kind regards
Trevor

Have you considered that the verse is found within the context ? Now lets discuss what the verse says.

 

[God's Truth]

Jer 17:9

9 [FONT=&]The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Now understand something the heart here speaks to the mind, will, and affections of a man. Its the hebrew word [/FONT]leb and means:

inner man, mind, will, heart, the inner man, indefinite the soul, comprehending mind, affections and will

Now the Mystery to this Truth is that this describes the heart of all natural men, even if they are religious, moral and upright. We tend to think this describes bank robbers, fornicators and drunkards, and drug dealers and users, which it does, however it includes good moral decent people with excellent high standards.

The heart of man is capable of more evil than anything, it does not mean all human's hearts are all evil.

 

[beloved57]

The heart of man is capable of more evil than anything, it does not mean all human's hearts are all evil.

False statement. Denial of truth

 

[Nanja]

beloved57

Jer 17:9

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Now understand something the heart here speaks to the mind, will, and affections of a man. Its the hebrew word leb and means:

inner man, mind, will, heart, the inner man, indefinite the soul, comprehending mind, affections and will

Now the Mystery to this Truth is that this describes the heart of all natural men, even if they are religious, moral and upright. We tend to think this describes bank robbers, fornicators and drunkards, and drug dealers and users, which it does, however it includes good moral decent people with excellent high standards.

Amen to posts 1 an 2 which clearly illustrate from the scriptures the incurable wickedness of the natural man's heart, leaving him utterly and completely helpless in his own act of believing, or doing anything at all, that can please God Rom. 8:8 because he is in a spiritually dead state.

Man's only Hope is that, by God's Grace and Mercy Rom. 9:23, He intervenes and quickens him by His Spirit, giving him a New Heart, making him Spiritually Alive in New Birth. A perfect example is the Prodigal Son Luke 15:24, who was dead, but became Alive. So first he was saved from Death, then he was made able to repent.


Ezek. 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

[God's Truth]

False statement. Denial of truth

I am going to ignore your posts from now on since you don't reply to what I say, you only react the only way you know how, and that is to say the same lie, and repeatedly.

 

[God's Truth]

beloved57





Amen to posts 1 an 2 which clearly illustrate from the scriptures the incurable wickedness of the natural man's heart, leaving him utterly and completely helpless in his own act of believing, or doing anything at all, that can please God Rom. 8:8 because he is in a spiritually dead state.

Man's only Hope is that, by God's Grace and Mercy Rom. 9:23, He intervenes and quickens him by His Spirit, giving him a New Heart, making him Spiritually Alive in New Birth. A perfect example is the Prodigal Son Luke 15:24, who was dead, but became Alive. So first he was saved from Death, then he was made able to repent.


Ezek. 36:26-27

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

God will give them a new heart if they repent of their sins, but they love sin more than they love God.

God pleads with them but they choose what displease them.

If they can't choose then God is merely pretending.

Your god is a pretender.

Why would God plead with them to turn from their ways if they cannot choose to?

“But as for you who forsake the LORD and forget my holy mountain, who spread a table for Fortune and fill bowls of mixed wine for Destiny, I will destine you for the sword, and you will all bend down for the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me.”

Isaiah 65:11-12. Here God says about being forsaken and His holy mountain being forgot. Also, this passage tells us that God called the people, and the people did not answer; He spoke but the people did not listen.

Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

Ezekiel 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?’

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Romans 11:14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

How could Paul ever think that he could save some by arousing them to envy if God saves us by the Holy Spirit enabling us to believe?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

 

[beloved57]

I am going to ignore your posts from now on since you don't reply to what I say, you only react the only way you know how, and that is to say the same lie, and repeatedly.

Repent of your false statement and denial of truth.

 

[Epoisses]

Now the Mystery to this Truth is that this describes the heart of all natural men, even if they are religious, moral and upright. We tend to think this describes bank robbers, fornicators and drunkards, and drug dealers and users, which it does, however it includes good moral decent people with excellent high standards.

Have to agree with the Calvinist on this one which describes proud and arrogant works loving Christians to a tee. I've been known to agree with Catholics as well especially when they elevate love over faith to Martin Luther's dismay.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beloved57,

Have you considered that the verse is found within the context ? Now lets discuss what the verse says.

I am not sure why you are objecting to my comment as I suggest Jeremiah 17:6-8 help to explain or qualify Jeremiah 17:9. It is true that with most men, their hearts are wicked. But this does not apply to those who have meditated on the Word of God as Psalm 1 indicates. How do you understand the following:
Luke 8:15 (AV): But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[God's Truth]

Repent of your false statement and denial of truth.

You need to do that.

 

[beloved57]

Greetings again beloved57, I am not sure why you are objecting to my comment as I suggest Jeremiah 17:6-8 help to explain or qualify Jeremiah 17:9. It is true that with most men, their hearts are wicked. But this does not apply to those who have meditated on the Word of God as Psalm 1 indicates. How do you understand the following:
Luke 8:15 (AV): But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Kind regards
Trevor

Jer 17:9 describes the natural mans heart. No exceptions!

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beloved57,

Jer 17:9 describes the natural mans heart. No exceptions!

I am not sure that the situation is completely black and white, but this generation appears to be less restrained, and less subject to a Biblical environment than that which existed say 50 years ago.

Perhaps we are returning to a black and white situation, close to Paul’s description of the Gentile world of his day in the following. I am also interested in how you understand verses 22-23. Is this a deliberate choice, as Paul gives some examples of sublimation, or transformation by a careful process of replacement therapy in the rest of chapter 4.
Ephesians 4: 17-24 (KJV): 17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation (or behaviour, or way of life) the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beloved57]

Greetings again beloved57, I am not sure that the situation is completely black and white, but this generation appears to be less restrained, and less subject to a Biblical environment than that which existed say 50 years ago.

Perhaps we are returning to a black and white situation, close to Paul’s description of the Gentile world of his day in the following. I am also interested in how you understand verses 22-23. Is this a deliberate choice, as Paul gives some examples of sublimation, or transformation by a careful process of replacement therapy in the rest of chapter 4.
Ephesians 4: 17-24 (KJV): 17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation (or behaviour, or way of life) the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Kind regards
Trevor

Jer 17:9 describes the natural mans heart. No exceptions! Did you read and understand the OP ?

 

[God's Truth]

Jer 17:9 describes the natural mans heart. No exceptions! Did you read and understand the OP ?

That scripture is about how the heart of humans can be deceitful above all other hearts on this earth.

That scriptures is NOT saying all human hearts are deceitful.

 

[beloved57]

That scripture is about how the heart of humans can be deceitful above all other hearts on this earth.

That scriptures is NOT saying all human hearts are deceitful.

False, its describing the natural human heart. And its incurable !

 

[God's Truth]

False, its describing the natural human heart. And its incurable !

No, it is about the capability of the human heart.

Jesus says there are people with good hearts.

Luke 8:15 “… these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”

 

[beloved57]

No, it is about the capability of the human heart.

Jesus says there are people with good hearts.

Luke 8:15 “… these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”

You are in denial of the truth!