ECT Genesis 1 & 2 The Beginning...

[2Pillars]

Briefly, here's how I read the passages of Genesis 1:1~5 based on my Biblical understanding ....

Genesis 1:1 is just a preface or summary -The Story of the "Beginning" of the Physical World.
Genesis 1:2 narrates us the condition of the deep (dark - void) before the world was.
Genesis 1:3 documents us the bringing forth of the Light before anything is made that was made; before the world was.
Genesis 1:4 the division / separation of Light from darkness - the first work of old.
Genesis 1:5 The evening & the morning, the first day.

Notice: The first formation of the physical Heaven actually took place on the 2nd Day - Gen 1:6-8, would that be correct? Your thought...

God Bless

 

[Catholic Crusader]

 

[Nick M]

You approach the timeline of Genesis by believing what Moses wrote. The earth and its water was made the first day. Everything was made in six days. This is explicit. I know it does not say he made the earth on the first day, but he did because it was all made in six days. The earth was not finished on the first day. That is the difference.

 

[2Pillars]

I believe, the Invisible Almighty God Father first Created (thru power of his logos) the materials or matters needed in order for his Son (YHWH or Jesus) to physically form/fashion with his own hands our heavenS (plural) and earth for inhabitation, thereof.

In the context of the text - Gen 1:1 - I see the narrative as saying..... Note: Insertions are mine for presentation.

In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth was without form, (Dust) and void (Empty); and darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown.. Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.

This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Bible were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.

God Bless

 

[Tambora]

Genesis 1:3 documents us the bringing forth of the Light before anything is made that was made; before the world was.

The Spirit is moving upon the face if the waters in verse 2 (before the light).

Are you suggesting that the waters were not something that was created?

 

[Wick Stick]

The Spirit is moving upon the face if the waters in verse 2 (before the light).

Are you suggesting that the waters were not something that was created?

If I understand correctly, he's suggesting that there are two separate components of creation. In the first component, raw materials were created (including water). In the second component, those materials are given a shape or form.

More specifically, in phase 1, water is created. In phase 2 the atmosphere is formed from the water.

This reading of Genesis 1 is ancient, and well-attested in Jewish writings and church history.

Jarrod

 

[2Pillars]

If I understand correctly, he's suggesting that there are two separate components of creation. In the first component, raw materials were created (including water). In the second component, those materials are given a shape or form.

More specifically, in phase 1, water is created. In phase 2 the atmosphere is formed from the water.

This reading of Genesis 1 is ancient, and well-attested in Jewish writings and church history.

Jarrod

You got it right, my brother.... Amen to that....

God Bless

 

[Tambora]

I believe, the Invisible Almighty God Father first Created (thru power of his logos) the materials or matters needed in order for his Son (YHWH or Jesus) to physically form/fashion with his own hands our heavenS (plural) and earth for inhabitation, thereof.

In the context of the text - Gen 1:1 - I see the narrative as saying..... Note: Insertions are mine for presentation.

In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth was without form, (Dust) and void (Empty); and darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown.. Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.

This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Bible were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.

God Bless

Ummm.
If the waters are not created, then the waters are also GOD, for GOD is the only un-created thing there is.

Which is why I asked to begin with, because you say here that nothing else came into being until after the Light came into being.

Genesis 1:3 documents us the bringing forth of the Light before anything is made that was made; before the world was.

​

There was water before the light.

 

[2Pillars]

Ummm.
If the waters are not created, then the waters are also GOD, for GOD is the only un-created thing there is.

Which is why I asked to begin with, because you say here that nothing else came into being until after the Light came into being.

​

There was water before the light.

Correct. The water was before the light....

The Water was part of the Element of the Air that was brought forth or Created in the Beginning Gen 1:1.

The actual PHYSICAL MAKING (using the hands of our Lord God) of the first firmament of heaven took place on the 2nd Day - Gen 1:6-8 - not Gen 1:1 -- based on my Biblical understanding.

God Bless

 

[Tambora]

Correct. The water is before the light....

The Water was part of the Element of the Air that was brought forth or Created in the Beginning Gen 1:1.

The actual PHYSICAL MAKING of the first firmament of heaven took place on the 2nd Day - Gen 1:6-8 - not Gen 1:1 -- based on my Biblical understanding.

God Bless

The waters were created before the light.
If that is what you are saying, then OK.
It sounded if though you were saying that the light was created before anything else was created.

 

[2Pillars]

The waters were created before the light.
If that is what you are saying, then OK.
It sounded if though you were saying that the light was created before anything else was created.

YHWH or Jesus, the Son, was the True Light that was brought forth (begotten) that shineth in heaven in the beginning - when God spoke His first Word and said "Let there be light: and there was light - Gen 1:3.

Jesus, provided the light in the beginning (Apha) - before the world was - as he will also be the one to provide the light in the end (Omega).

Rev. 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.

God Bless

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Nobody liked my video? I am wounded.

 

[2Pillars]

Gen. 1:6-8 shows that the Firmament or Heaven, as God calls it, was formed on the 2nd Day.

The narrative of Gen. 1:1-2 is speaking of the period BEFORE the 1st Day.

In fact, during the time Jesus was praying to his Father at the garden of Gethsemane before his death in crucifixion , He speaks of the following.....

And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine Own Self with the Glory which I had with Thee BEFORE the world was." John 17:5

Glory is brightness, a physical trait. Jesus was speaking of the brightness of his Glory that he shared to his Father in the beginning.... when God said... "LET THERE BE LIGHT".... before the World was (Gen. 1:3). Before the world was could only be Before 1st Day.

If one believes that In the Beginning God Created and Formed the 1st Heaven BEFORE the 1st Day, then the Words of Jesus would seem to be in error.

If one believes that the 1st Firmament or Heaven was formed on the 2nd Day (Gen.1:6-8), then it would agree with Jesus, and would show that Jesus came into the World Before the 1st Heaven was formed BEFORE the world was.

God Bless

 

[Tambora]

YHWH or Jesus, the Son, was the True Light that was brought forth (begotten) that shineth in heaven in the beginning - when God spoke His first Word and said "Let there be light: and there was light - Gen 1:3.

Jesus, provided the light in the beginning (Apha) - before the world was - as he will also be the one to provide the light in the end (Omega).

Rev. 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.

God Bless

Are you setting up a defense that the Son (the light of day 1) was created FIRST, and then He (the light of day 1) created everything else?
That just cannot be true since there was water (created) before the light of day 1 was created.
Nor was the Son the light of day 1 because the Son is uncreated and the light of day 1 is created.

 

[Wick Stick]

Almost all Biblical critics agree that "the heavens and the earth" in Genesis 1:1 is a literary device known as a MERISM.

A merism is where the parts of a thing are referred to together, as a way of representing something larger. For instance, "lock, stock, and barrel" refers to a rifle. "Hook, line, and sinker" refers to fishing. If you looked "high and low" you looked everywhere. "The young and the old" doesn't just refer to the elderly and children, it includes everyone.

Anyway, "the heavens and the earth" just means EVERYTHING.
And in the verse after, "without form and void" (the rhyming Hebrew words tohuw and bohuw) are another merism that just means SHAPELESS.

In the beginning, God made... everything.
And it was... shapeless.
Then the Holy Spirit got involved, and things started to take shape.

 

[2Pillars]

I believe, the Invisible Almighty God Father first Created the materials or matters needed in order for his Son (YHWH or Jesus) to physically form/fashion with his own hands our heavenS (plural) and earth for inhabitation, thereof.

Here’s where I stand: Insertions are mine for clarity of thoughts.

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavenS and of the earth when they were Created (bara') -- thru the power of God’ logos -- in the day that the LORD God (Son) MADE (`asah ) - thru the palm of his hands - the earth and the heavenS.

The Son of God already existed PHYSICALLY before the world was. He was with his invisible God Almighty Father' bosom BEFORE the Making of our physical world. He came forth (begotten), the first time, into our physical world from the invisible realm of his Father, when God spoke the “Word” in the Beginning and said, “LET THERE BE LIGHT”, and there was light. (Gen. 1:3).

John 1:3 All things were Made by him; and without him was not any thing Made that was Made. v4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

YHWH or Jesus, the Son, is the only God physically formed for us to see and witness. He was again sent into our world to die and save us from our sins. He became known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

Isa 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

To be witnessed by someone is to be seen, physically or personally experienced himself.

Note: The Almighty God Father is an invisible Spirit without physical shape or form and changes not.

God Bless

 

[2Pillars]

Almost all Biblical critics agree that "the heavens and the earth" in Genesis 1:1 is a literary device known as a MERISM.

A merism is where the parts of a thing are referred to together, as a way of representing something larger. For instance, "lock, stock, and barrel" refers to a rifle. "Hook, line, and sinker" refers to fishing. If you looked "high and low" you looked everywhere. "The young and the old" doesn't just refer to the elderly and children, it includes everyone.

Anyway, "the heavens and the earth" just means EVERYTHING.
And in the verse after, "without form and void" (the rhyming Hebrew words tohuw and bohuw) are another merism that just means SHAPELESS.

In the beginning, God made... everything.
And it was... shapeless.
Then the Holy Spirit got involved, and things started to take shape.

Earth or Ground without form or "SHAPELESS" is something that you can NOT walk or even stand up to (Void). That's why I described it as "Dust".

Therefore, it is something to be improved upon - physically Formed or Fashioned -- like a potter would mold a clay -- in order to be useful for our inhabitation, thereof. And that's the role of the Son, thy Maker, in the beginning of Genesis.

God Bless

 

[Interplanner]

Briefly, here's how I read the passages of Genesis 1:1~5 based on my Biblical understanding ....

Genesis 1:1 is just a preface or summary -The Story of the "Beginning" of the Physical World.
Genesis 1:2 narrates us the condition of the deep (dark - void) before the world was.
Genesis 1:3 documents us the bringing forth of the Light before anything is made that was made; before the world was.
Genesis 1:4 the division / separation of Light from darkness - the first work of old.
Genesis 1:5 The evening & the morning, the first day.

Notice: The first formation of the physical Heaven actually took place on the 2nd Day - Gen 1:6-8, would that be correct? Your thought...

God Bless

The first "verse" is a section title, says Rabbi Cassuto in his commentary. Like 5:1 and about 20 places in Moses. Ie, it is not action in the account yet.

There is a pre-existing condition and it is in need of fixing or redeeming. Things are unformed and unfilled.

By the end of the 3rd day, all the forms are there for land, sea and sky.

By the end of the 6th day, all the forms are filled with things, and that is "very good."

The first day may be about a 'white hole' just as we now know of 'black holes.' I've never found much about it, but have heard of it one or two times. Chances are it is far too subversive for secular scientists to consider.

 

[2Pillars]

Dear Interplanner,

Here's the way I see it....

Genesis 1 is an Outline of ALL of the events leading to the Creation of the Perfect Heaven. Most of the rest of the Bible refers to the present 6th Day, but ALL of the Bible refers to the events of God's 6 Creative Days. That's why we are taken back to the 3rd Day at Gen 2:4. The narrative is adding details to the events listed in Gen 1. Both accounts agree totally and in detail.

What is amazing is, since God sees the end from the beginning, Isa 46:10 .... He wrote our History more than 3k years ago, and the events at the end of the present 6th Day are still Future.

A good example of this is, we are still living at Genesis 1:27, as of today. We will not advance to the prophecy of Gen 1:28-31 until Jesus return to our planet and reigns for a thousand years.

IOW, God told the complete story of the Creation in Genesis 1 and beginning at Gen 2:4, we begin to learn the details of the events of Genesis 1.

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and*there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, v10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God Bless

 

[Wick Stick]

Earth or Ground without form or "SHAPELESS" is something that you can NOT walk or even stand up to (Void). That's why I described it as "Dust".

I understand what you're saying. But it oughtn't be described separately at all. The verse isn't saying that God created two distinct classes of chaotic matter. It's just saying that He created matter, which was as yet unformed. That's why the whole mass is referred to collectively as 'waters' in the following verse.

Jarrod