ECT Evil Poll ... (4 of 5) ... God made the Devil do it!

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Please Participate in the Above Poll...

"Does the Devil have freewill that places his guilt upon his own head... or is he an agent that does God's Will and is inside of God's Will and thus does God's will, alone?"

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Poll Question 1

Poll Question 2

Poll Question 3

Poll Question 4

Poll Question 5

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Nothing created by God is beyond the sovereignty of God. Most certainly, this includes the fallen angel, Satan. Just as he chooses according to his greatest inclinations at the moment Satan so chooses, so do we all. The difference lies in one's moral state: fallen or redeemed. The fallen are only inclined to do evil, at enmity with God, their Creator, to whom they owe a duty to love and to worship. By the quickening power of the Holy Spirit (John 5:21; John 6:63), the redeemed are inclined to love God and enjoy Him forever, albeit still retaining inclinations to sin, the inclinations being mortified daily in their walk of faith, yet are no longer able to only sin more or sin less as such as are the fallen.

What we or the devil thinks, does, or says, is not beyond the sovereignty of God, Who wills righteously what men sometimes and devils always do evilly. Accordingly, moral agents who think, do, or say evil, are held responsible to their Creator for their actions.

AMR

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Nothing created by God is beyond the sovereignty of God. Most certainly, this includes the fallen angel, Satan. Just as he chooses according to his greatest inclinations at the moment Satan so chooses, so do we all. The difference lies in one's moral state: fallen or redeemed. The fallen are only inclined to do evil, at enmity with God, their Creator, to whom they owe a duty to love and to worship. By the quickening power of the Holy Spirit (John 5:21; John 6:63), the redeemed are inclined to love God and enjoy Him forever, albeit still retaining inclinations to sin, the inclinations being mortified daily in their walk of faith, yet are no longer able to only sin more or sin less as such as are the fallen.

What we or the devil thinks, does, or says, is not beyond the sovereignty of God, Who wills righteously what men sometimes and devils always do evilly. Accordingly, moral agents who think, do, or say evil, are held responsible to their Creator for their actions.

AMR

I appreciate your input... could you please cast your vote?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I appreciate your input... could you please cast your vote?

I will be happy to do so as soon as you unpack what you mean by "free will" and "agent of God".

AMR

 

[jamie]

"Does the Devil have freewill that places his guilt upon his own head... or is he an agent that does God's Will and is inside of God's Will and thus does God's will, alone?"

Satan will die for his sin if he doesn't repent.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I will be happy to do so as soon as you unpack what you mean by "free will" and "agent of God".

AMR

Agent of God... "Like a Prophet... who does all, in response to God's wishes."

Free Will...... "As in... a person is able to choose and they are accountable for their actions"

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Ephesians 2:2King James Version (KJV) 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:


Colossians 1:16

“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Ephesians 2:2King James Version (KJV) 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:


Colossians 1:16

“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”

Indeed... Excellent Scripture. If you make a Meat Cleaver and send it off to do it's job, and it is used in a murder... are you then guilty of the Murder?

 

[nikolai_42]

Please Participate in the Above Poll...

"Does the Devil have freewill that places his guilt upon his own head... or is he an agent that does God's Will and is inside of God's Will and thus does God's will, alone?"

In some sense, both are true.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Indeed... Excellent Scripture. If you make a Meat Cleaver and send it off to do it's job, and it is used in a murder... are you then guilty of the Murder?

Romans 9:20

“Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?”

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Satan will die for his sin if he doesn't repent.

Yuh reckon he'll know when to fold em?

 

[glorydaz]

I think the angels were created with a limited free will...to serve God or disobey Him. Both good and fallen angels then existed after the rebellion....serving God's purpose.

They were not given the free will to serve themselves or follow selfish desires as men can. I guess I don't know how to answer this question. :idunno:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I think the angels were created with a limited free will...to serve God or disobey Him. Both good and fallen angels then existed after the rebellion....serving God's purpose.

They were not given the free will to serve themselves or follow selfish desires as men can. I guess I don't know how to answer this question. :idunno:

Is the devil God's crime boss for hire... or is the devil guilty of rebellion and the ill he contributes to this universe... that's the premise.

Hope that helps

And... as far as your response... excellent way to put it.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

In some sense, both are true.

:think: Now this is a sincere answer that has a fair distinguishment of Will vs.. Deviation. I can respect your stance.

My previous response to Glorydaz is the intended thrust of the question.

 

[glorydaz]

Is the devil God's crime boss for hire... or is the devil guilty of rebellion and the ill he contributes to this universe... that's the premise.

Hope that helps

And... as far as your response... excellent way to put it.

Yes, he is guilty of rebellion. thanks

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Yes, he is guilty of rebellion. thanks

Oops... I'm doing my best to keep my responses impartial. But... thank you immensly for your answer.

Spoiler

had it been another thread... thank you would be in place

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I think the angels were created with a limited free will...to serve God or disobey Him. Both good and fallen angels then existed after the rebellion....serving God's purpose.

They were not given the free will to serve themselves or follow selfish desires as men can. I guess I don't know how to answer this question. :idunno:

:think:...

 

[glorydaz]

Oops... I'm doing my best to keep my responses impartial. But... thank you immensly for your answer.

Spoiler

had it been another thread... thank you would be in place

:think:...

I wonder what you guys mean by these cryptic responses...... :idunno:

 

[nikolai_42]

:think: Now this is a sincere answer that has a fair distinguishment of Will vs.. Deviation. I can respect your stance.

My previous response to Glorydaz is the intended thrust of the question.

(Apologies ahead of time, I think this is a bit rambling and somewhat stream of consciousness...)

Understanding that I write from a strictly human perspective, I don't believe there is anything that catches God off guard (in any sense or to any degree). I also don't believe God has been - nor indeed is - sorting out humanity's desires and actions so as to achieve the maximum benefit. God either decrees or reacts. A Creator that reacts to His creation is working with the cards He has been dealt (so to speak). But who dealt the cards? With a mere word, the whole host of the heavens was set in motion and continues to this day in the same course set by God. Those heavenly bodies were set there for times and for seasons. There is no one to change this established order save God Himself. The nations are as a drop in the bucket to Him and are counted as the small dust of the balance! We are dealing with something - Someone - whose very words form galaxies, root up nations and plant kings. This isn't a matter of the strong vs. the weak (or forced...whatever) this is our very Maker saying it is so (us being a part of that decree) and it becoming so. Who can stay His hand? Who has been His counselor? He is the beginning of all that is and the end. It is not that it is somehow beneath such a God to react, but it is unfathomable that He would decree anything and part of it would come to pass and part of it would be cast to the ground. To believe that could be so would be to reject what several scriptures says about His will. And yet...we are not automatons. Judgment is very real. There is a reckoning to be had and I am certain we will find out that things are not much like we thought they were. In our fallen state, we are far less free than those who are not in bondage to sin. We are slaves to unrighteousness as children of Adam. So what happens that causes us to question God's Sovereignty makes us try to distance Him from all that goes on. But that is the perspective of blind, dead, fallen, unrighteous, self-centered man. Man who is so easily led astray by the tempter (as Eve so ably demonstrated). We think it makes Him responsible for sin when in reality it shows His judgment upon it - upon us (going back to Eden). Not that one bad action deserves another, but that this is our reality apart from full fellowship with our Creator. So WE don't have what I would call free will - just the illusion of it. Man plans his ways but God directs his steps.

So to Satan, he is declared to be judged in Isaiah 14 and in much of Revelation. So the end is very clear. And the reason is also clear (deceived the nations, made the nations tremble etc...). But to go to beginnings when we weren't there is to assume too much. We are told that Satan was a liar AND a murderer from the beginning - and is the father of lies. God doesn't lie, but He most certainly gives men over to lies and deception. For His own good reasons. So He has no compunction (as seen with Job) with directing Satan to do what we find distasteful (to say the least) and receive glory from it. And as far as Satan carries out what God points him to (that is, to satisfy his evil desires) he is being God's servant but not desiring to do God's will. He is an unwitting servant - but a servant nonetheless.

What I still can't comprehend is how Satan is a liar and a murderer from Day 1. Didn't God create him? But he was beautiful until sin was found in him. Where did it come from? If free will, then there is no guarantee that a future heavens and earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness" will not undergo the same downward spiral under a newly discovered deposit of rebellion.

Is Satan responsible for rebellion and subject to eternal judgment for it? Yes. Is he God's servant? Absolutely. Only that's not what he sets out to be. He is bound by his rebellion.