Yes or No... Please Participate in Above Poll
"Is Spiritual Death the Same as Carnal Death?"
"Is Spiritual Death the Same as Carnal Death?"
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ECT Evil Poll ... (2 of 5) ... Is Spiritual Death Different than Carnal Death?
- Thread starter Evil.Eye.<(I)>
- Start date
Ask Mr. Religion
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What do you mean by carnal death? The cessation of one's physical life wherein the soul is then separated from the body? If so, all with few exceptions, will experience this death.
Clearly Spiritual death is not the same thing here. But, by spiritual death, are you implying the spiritual nature of the person, the soul? The soul will never cease to exist, unless you advocate annihilationism.
Or perhaps by Spiritual you mean that principle of life wherein we are morally able to seek after the righteousness of God? Of course, I would answer that none but those that have been quickened from spiritual death to spiritual life possess this moral ability. In this case, spiritual death is quite different from the cessation of one's physical life wherein the soul is then separated from the body (carnal death).
AMR
Clearly Spiritual death is not the same thing here. But, by spiritual death, are you implying the spiritual nature of the person, the soul? The soul will never cease to exist, unless you advocate annihilationism.
Or perhaps by Spiritual you mean that principle of life wherein we are morally able to seek after the righteousness of God? Of course, I would answer that none but those that have been quickened from spiritual death to spiritual life possess this moral ability. In this case, spiritual death is quite different from the cessation of one's physical life wherein the soul is then separated from the body (carnal death).
AMR
So indeed... We understand that Dust returns to dust... "Carnal Death"? And... I agree with you that the Soul lives on. :thumb:
"Annihilationism"... would be an idea of a hyper "Soul Death"... that impacts the Soul... as "Carnal Death" impacts the body... thus Annihilating it. I recognize Eternal Torture and Annihilationism... as possible fates that will befall... those not sealed... upon final judgment. I believe the Soul currently lives on... in this age of grace... in Heaven... or Sheol... as God sees fit.
Spiritual Death of whatever theological choosing... that ultimately would result in "Eternal Damnation"... without "intervention" by something like ... 2 Corinthians 5:19.
No, of course not.
Excellent, Thank you!
AMR is right - most of your poll questions are limited.
Case in point, different people hold different understandings of what is spiritual and what is carnal - and many have both off.
Result being that your various polls there force one into a yes or no that does not necessarily really say anything about what one's actual understanding of one thing or another might be.
Fine for those more inclined to the narrow mindedness that the yes or no, black or white of many is.
Not fine for the individual more inclined to examine a thing a bit more from the center - from where all sides tend to be a bit more visible.
As in the Apostle Paul's Christ given - "NO man after the flesh...NEITHER Jew, NOR Gentle" perspective.
Still, such polls do result in reflection on such things.
Rom. 5:8.
Case in point, different people hold different understandings of what is spiritual and what is carnal - and many have both off.
Result being that your various polls there force one into a yes or no that does not necessarily really say anything about what one's actual understanding of one thing or another might be.
Fine for those more inclined to the narrow mindedness that the yes or no, black or white of many is.
Not fine for the individual more inclined to examine a thing a bit more from the center - from where all sides tend to be a bit more visible.
As in the Apostle Paul's Christ given - "NO man after the flesh...NEITHER Jew, NOR Gentle" perspective.
Still, such polls do result in reflection on such things.
Rom. 5:8.
Oh my... It's pretty straight forward... Buckle down Danoh. There's the answering of a thing... and there's the answer of the answer.
I'm looking for just the answer.
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
John 3
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Scripture is clear we are all dead in trespasses and sins, prior to salvation, Ephesians 2:1-5. A "dead burying the dead" scenario, Matthew 8:22. When we repent and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ and receive the Holy Spirit, we become spiritually alive, but not until this event: the Spirit of Christ IS that spiritual life in us. The Spirit of Christ is eternal life. The mortal body, itself, has nothing to do with anything, in terms of being spiritually alive or dead to God.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Luke 17:20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath [present tense] everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Note below, in 1 John 5:10-13, "God gave us eternal life" is past tense, "has life" and "you have eternal life" present tense, the statement to John's audience, as well as believers down time by scripture, not the likes of "you will get eternal life" or "you may have eternal life, in the end":
1 John 5:10-13 Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
The born again is a new creature, not the old creature, "all things become new" here and now, and how are creatures new, actually changed in any way, to distinguish from anybody else, but by the indwelling Holy Spirit?
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Our Lord Jesus even stated the believer never really dies, period:
John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
There is a clear statement that a believer "shall never die" that cannot be explained, of any mortal man, but that life is possessed of the believer already by the Holy Spirit, the new birth, the Spirit of Christ. It's also painfully obvious the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of eternal God in us, cannot die: God's Spirit doesn't get snuffed out by lack of blood circulation, an absurd notion. For that matter, all have a spirit that will face God in the hereafter, so spiritual life or death clearly isn't even related to simply having a spirit that lives on, after carnal death, rather living to God involving a regenerated spirit, or not.
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
So, most emphatically, Christianity is clear matters of spiritual and carnal death are not really even related, clearly "dead men walking" already, prior to carnal death, and living men, in Christ, already living, prior to carnal death.
You know what's encouraging? That nobody has, as yet, voted "Yes" to this question. Maybe not all is lost on the web.
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Scripture is clear we are all dead in trespasses and sins, prior to salvation, Ephesians 2:1-5. A "dead burying the dead" scenario, Matthew 8:22. When we repent and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ and receive the Holy Spirit, we become spiritually alive, but not until this event: the Spirit of Christ IS that spiritual life in us. The Spirit of Christ is eternal life. The mortal body, itself, has nothing to do with anything, in terms of being spiritually alive or dead to God.
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Luke 17:20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath [present tense] everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Note below, in 1 John 5:10-13, "God gave us eternal life" is past tense, "has life" and "you have eternal life" present tense, the statement to John's audience, as well as believers down time by scripture, not the likes of "you will get eternal life" or "you may have eternal life, in the end":
1 John 5:10-13 Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
The born again is a new creature, not the old creature, "all things become new" here and now, and how are creatures new, actually changed in any way, to distinguish from anybody else, but by the indwelling Holy Spirit?
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Our Lord Jesus even stated the believer never really dies, period:
John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
There is a clear statement that a believer "shall never die" that cannot be explained, of any mortal man, but that life is possessed of the believer already by the Holy Spirit, the new birth, the Spirit of Christ. It's also painfully obvious the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of eternal God in us, cannot die: God's Spirit doesn't get snuffed out by lack of blood circulation, an absurd notion. For that matter, all have a spirit that will face God in the hereafter, so spiritual life or death clearly isn't even related to simply having a spirit that lives on, after carnal death, rather living to God involving a regenerated spirit, or not.
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
So, most emphatically, Christianity is clear matters of spiritual and carnal death are not really even related, clearly "dead men walking" already, prior to carnal death, and living men, in Christ, already living, prior to carnal death.
You know what's encouraging? That nobody has, as yet, voted "Yes" to this question. Maybe not all is lost on the web.