ECT Esau and Jacob are the same ethnicity, since they both have the same parents; but the

[Capricorn]

Romans 9:13 says that God hated Esau but loved Jacob, although they both had the same parents, ethnicity or cultural background.

At the same time, Esau and Jacob have represented two divergent lineages, which are distinct and separate nations; since we know that the “vessels of wrath” and “vessels of mercy” are in reference to entire nations in Jeremiah 18:1-10 and Romans 9:21-23.

Thus, Esau and Jacob represent two individuals who belonged to the same ethnicity (Romans 9:13), as much as they also represent two different nations according to Romans 9:21-23.

However, the question of divergent lineages is mentioned elsewhere on this forum; but the purpose of this question is to focus on Esau and Jacob as two individuals who belonged to the same nation, tribe or ETHNICITY: Romans 9:13, 15.

According to Romans 9:13, 15 two individuals who belong to the same nation, tribe or ethnicity are not to be considered as “equal” in terms of God’s love for the respective individuals concerned; since we know that God loved Jacob more than his brother Esau, which means that they are not to be counted as “equal”, despite them belonging to the same group.

What is true of Esau and Jacob is also true of any two individuals who are from the same nation, tribe or ethnicity.

Therefore, individuals who belong to the same ethnicity should not be counted as “equal” in terms of God’s love for the individuals concerned: Romans 9:13, 15.

However, Romans 9:13, 15 is not exclusive reference to Esau and Jacob, but it applies equally to any two individuals who belong to the same nation, tribe or ethnicity.

True or false?


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[Capricorn]

The subject title should read like this:

“Esau and Jacob are the same ethnicity, since they both have the same parents; but they also represent divergent lineages. True or false?”


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[MennoSota]

Romans 9:13 says that God hated Esau but loved Jacob, although they both had the same parents, ethnicity or cultural background.

At the same time, Esau and Jacob have represented two divergent lineages, which are distinct and separate nations; since we know that the “vessels of wrath” and “vessels of mercy” are in reference to entire nations in Jeremiah 18:1-10 and Romans 9:21-23.

Thus, Esau and Jacob represent two individuals who belonged to the same ethnicity (Romans 9:13), as much as they also represent two different nations according to Romans 9:21-23.

However, the question of divergent lineages is mentioned elsewhere on this forum; but the purpose of this question is to focus on Esau and Jacob as two individuals who belonged to the same nation, tribe or ETHNICITY: Romans 9:13, 15.

According to Romans 9:13, 15 two individuals who belong to the same nation, tribe or ethnicity are not to be considered as “equal” in terms of God’s love for the respective individuals concerned; since we know that God loved Jacob more than his brother Esau, which means that they are not to be counted as “equal”, despite them belonging to the same group.

What is true of Esau and Jacob is also true of any two individuals who are from the same nation, tribe or ethnicity.

Therefore, individuals who belong to the same ethnicity should not be counted as “equal” in terms of God’s love for the individuals concerned: Romans 9:13, 15.

However, Romans 9:13, 15 is not exclusive reference to Esau and Jacob, but it applies equally to any two individuals who belong to the same nation, tribe or ethnicity.

True or false?


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Which of the two children was a child of the promise? Which of the two children was a child of the curse?
God does the choosing, by the way. Ethnicity has nothing to do with God's choice.

 

[ok doser]

all descendants from Adam are of the same ethnicity

 

[genuineoriginal]

“Esau and Jacob are the same ethnicity, since they both have the same parents; but they also represent divergent lineages. True or false?”

According to the Bible, 70 nations came from the three sons of Noah.

List of Nations Descended from Noah's 3 Sons Shem (Semitic Race) Ham (Turanian Race) Japheth (Aryan Race) Elam (Elamites) Cush (Ethiopia) Gomer (Celts) Asshur (Assyrians) Seba (meroe) Ashkenaz (Nysia, Phrygia) Arphaxad (Chaldeans) Havilah (Arabia) Riphath (Riphaean) Shelah Sabtah (Sabbatha) Togarmah (Armenia) Eber Raamah (Persian Gulf) Magog (Scythians) Peleg Sheba Madai (Medes) Joktan (Arabia) Dedan Javan (Greeks) Almodad Sabtecah Elishah (Aeolians) Sheleph Nimrod Tarshish (Tartessus) Hazarmaveth Mizraim (Egypt) Kittim (Cyprus) Jerah Ludim (Nubia) Dodanim (Trojans) Hadoram Anamites Tubal Uzal Lehabim (Libya) Meshech Diklah Naphtuhitim (Napetu) Tiras (Thracians) Obal Pathrusim (Pathros) Abimael Casluhites (Philistia) Sheba Philistines Ophir Caphtorites (Crete) Havilah Phut (Libya) Jobab Canaan (Canaanites) Lud (Lydians) Sidonites Aram (Syrians) Hittites Uz Jebusites Hul Amorites Gether Girgashites Meshach Hivites Arkites Sinites Arvadites Zemarites Hamathites [td]

​

 

[Capricorn]

Ethnicity has nothing to do with God's choice.

Esau and Jacob are clearly from the same ethnicity, since they both had the same parents and the same cultural background.

However, this example serves to highlight the fact that two individuals who belong to the same ethnicity won’t be regarded as “equal” in terms of God’s love or favouritism.

As God clearly favoured Jacob (or Israel) over his brother Esau: Romans 9:13.

Also, assuming that ethnicity has nothing to do with God’s choice it is because God’s choice has preceded the end result, which are divergent lineages or two different ethnicities.

In other words, God never made his choice based on the question of ethnicity, but the question of ethnicity is the end result which has arisen from God’s choice.

So, although both are from the same ethnicity with a common starting point, Esau and Jacob also represented divergent lineages which have become two distinct and separate ethnicities; namely, the Edomites and Israelites in this particular example.

Thus, the emergence of distinct and separate ethnicities is a by product or end result of God’s choosing between Esau and Jacob.

So, the respective descendants of Esau and Jacob are distinct and separate ethnicities who are either blessed or cursed according to God’s choice between the two rivals.

However, you say that God’s choice has nothing to do with ethnicity, but the end result of such a choice is still relevant and directly correlated with the question of ethnicity.

The end result being that one person (and his nation) is cursed, whilst his sibling (and his respective country) is blessed by God’s choice between the two relatives.

So, although God’s choice has nothing to do with ethnicity the end result of such choosing is strongly correlated with the idea of ethnicity.

Consequently, God’s favouritism of some individuals (and their respective countries) over other people (and their respective countries) is to be seen in terms of how some people are apparently blessed, whilst others are cursed.

Such a favouritism (or its opposite) is to be seen in terms of ethnicity - Although God’s choice has nothing to do with ethnicity - Since favouritism is strongly correlated with the idea of ethnicity.

Whether such a correlation is purely coincidental or not it doesn’t matter, because God’s favouritism (or its opposite) is still correlated with the idea of ethnicity, and therefore, such a favouritism is to be seen in terms of ethnicity; despite the fact that God’s choice has nothing to do with ethnicity.

Ethnicity is not the root cause, but such a favouritism (or otherwise) is to be seen in terms of ethnicity; since there is a strong correlation between God’s choice and the end result which is correlated with ethnicity.


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[MennoSota]

Esau and Jacob are clearly from the same ethnicity, since they both had the same parents and the same cultural background.

However, this example serves to highlight the fact that two individuals who belong to the same ethnicity won’t be regarded as “equal” in terms of God’s love or favouritism.

As God clearly favoured Jacob (or Israel) over his brother Esau: Romans 9:13.

Also, assuming that ethnicity has nothing to do with God’s choice it is because God’s choice has preceded the end result, which are divergent lineages or two different ethnicities.

In other words, God never made his choice based on the question of ethnicity, but the question of ethnicity is the end result which has arisen from God’s choice.

So, although both are from the same ethnicity with a common starting point, Esau and Jacob also represented divergent lineages which have become two distinct and separate ethnicities; namely, the Edomites and Israelites in this particular example.

Thus, the emergence of distinct and separate ethnicities is a by product or end result of God’s choosing between Esau and Jacob.

So, the respective descendants of Esau and Jacob are distinct and separate ethnicities who are either blessed or cursed according to God’s choice between the two rivals.

However, you say that God’s choice has nothing to do with ethnicity, but the end result of such a choice is still relevant and directly correlated with the question of ethnicity.

The end result being that one person (and his nation) is cursed, whilst his sibling (and his respective country) is blessed by God’s choice between the two relatives.

So, although God’s choice has nothing to do with ethnicity the end result of such choosing is strongly correlated with the idea of ethnicity.

Consequently, God’s favouritism of some individuals (and their respective countries) over other people (and their respective countries) is to be seen in terms of how some people are apparently blessed, whilst others are cursed.

Such a favouritism (or its opposite) is to be seen in terms of ethnicity - Although God’s choice has nothing to do with ethnicity - Since favouritism is strongly correlated with the idea of ethnicity.

Whether such a correlation is purely coincidental or not it doesn’t matter, because God’s favouritism (or its opposite) is still correlated with the idea of ethnicity, and therefore, such a favouritism is to be seen in terms of ethnicity; despite the fact that God’s choice has nothing to do with ethnicity.

Ethnicity is not the root cause, but such a favouritism (or otherwise) is to be seen in terms of ethnicity; since there is a strong correlation between God’s choice and the end result which is correlated with ethnicity.


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Ethnicity is not a factor...period. I couldn't care less what ethnicity the twins came from. If we look at genetics in the line of David, Jesus was likely closer to Somalian than he was to Greek. It's rather silly.
The only relevant issue is whether a person is of the promise or of the curse.

 

[Capricorn]

Which of the two children was a child of the promise? Which of the two children was a child of the curse?
God does the choosing, by the way. Ethnicity has nothing to do with God's choice.

This question serves to highlight the fact that given the same ethnicity God would still favour one individual over another individual, although they are both relatives who belong to the same ethnicity: Patricians vs Plebs, Bourgeoisie vs Proletariat, Toffs vs Riff Raff, Catholics vs Protestants, and Conservatives vs Socialists etc.

As Esau and Jacob clearly belonged to the same ethnicity; yet, God can see fit to hate one individual instead of the other, whilst he loved one individual instead of the other: Romans 9:13.


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[MennoSota]

This question serves to highlight the fact that given the same ethnicity God would still favour one individual over another individual, although they are both relatives who belong to the same ethnicity: Patricians vs Plebs, Bourgeoisie vs Proletariat, Toffs vs Riff Raff, Catholics vs Protestants, and Conservatives vs Socialists etc.

As Esau and Jacob clearly belonged to the same ethnicity; yet, God can see fit to hate one individual instead of the other, whilst he loved one individual instead of the other: Romans 9:13.


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The issue revolves around sin. God chooses to reconcile one rebel while not reconciling the other rebel. We see it in countless families around the world.
As Sovereign King, God chooses whom He will pardon. Family connection has no bearing on His choice.

 

[genuineoriginal]

This question serves to highlight the fact that given the same ethnicity God would still favour one individual over another individual, although they are both relatives who belong to the same ethnicity: Patricians vs Plebs, Bourgeoisie vs Proletariat, Toffs vs Riff Raff, Catholics vs Protestants, and Conservatives vs Socialists etc.

As Esau and Jacob clearly belonged to the same ethnicity; yet, God can see fit to hate one individual instead of the other, whilst he loved one individual instead of the other: Romans 9:13.

You seem to be trying to make God's judgment unrighteous by making it about the ethnicity of a person.
God's righteous judgment is about a person's deeds, not a person's ethnicity.

Romans 2:5-11 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.​

 

[Jacob]

Romans 9:13 says that God hated Esau but loved Jacob, although they both had the same parents, ethnicity or cultural background.

At the same time, Esau and Jacob have represented two divergent lineages, which are distinct and separate nations; since we know that the “vessels of wrath” and “vessels of mercy” are in reference to entire nations in Jeremiah 18:1-10 and Romans 9:21-23.

Thus, Esau and Jacob represent two individuals who belonged to the same ethnicity (Romans 9:13), as much as they also represent two different nations according to Romans 9:21-23.

However, the question of divergent lineages is mentioned elsewhere on this forum; but the purpose of this question is to focus on Esau and Jacob as two individuals who belonged to the same nation, tribe or ETHNICITY: Romans 9:13, 15.

According to Romans 9:13, 15 two individuals who belong to the same nation, tribe or ethnicity are not to be considered as “equal” in terms of God’s love for the respective individuals concerned; since we know that God loved Jacob more than his brother Esau, which means that they are not to be counted as “equal”, despite them belonging to the same group.

What is true of Esau and Jacob is also true of any two individuals who are from the same nation, tribe or ethnicity.

Therefore, individuals who belong to the same ethnicity should not be counted as “equal” in terms of God’s love for the individuals concerned: Romans 9:13, 15.

However, Romans 9:13, 15 is not exclusive reference to Esau and Jacob, but it applies equally to any two individuals who belong to the same nation, tribe or ethnicity.

True or false?


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What if we say there is a difference between Esau and what Esau represents or Esau beyond the person?

 

[Capricorn]

You seem to be trying to make God's judgment unrighteous by making it about the ethnicity of a person.
God's righteous judgment is about a person's deeds, not a person's ethnicity.

However, Romans 9:21-23 has made it clear that God can still discern or discriminate between the “vessels of wrath” and “vessels of mercy”.

Those allegorical “vessels” represent entire nations according to Romans 9:21-23; since Paul is quoting the Story of the Potter and Clay in Jeremiah 18 when he wrote Romans Chapter 9.

Therefore, God can discriminate on the basis of one’s nationality, but it’s tough luck on those who have the wrong type of passport (Romans 9:22); as such people will be obliterated during the Great Tribulation: Isaiah 24:1, 5, 6.

According to Romans 9:22-23 not all countries will survive the Great Tribulation; since God will discriminate between the “vessels of wrath” and “vessels of mercy”.



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[genuineoriginal]

However, Romans 9:21-23 has made it clear that God can still discern or discriminate between the “vessels of wrath” and “vessels of mercy”.

Those allegorical “vessels” represent entire nations according to Romans 9:21-23; since Paul is quoting the Story of the Potter and Clay in Jeremiah 18 when he wrote Romans Chapter 9.

Therefore, God can discriminate on the basis of one’s nationality, but it’s tough luck on those who have the wrong type of passport (Romans 9:22); as such people will be obliterated during the Great Tribulation: Isaiah 24:1, 5, 6.

According to Romans 9:22-23 not all countries will survive the Great Tribulation; since God will discriminate between the “vessels of wrath” and “vessels of mercy”.



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God made promises to Abraham and Isaac.
Esau despised his those promises that were his birthright as the firstborn, and sold them to his brother Jacob for a bowl of pottage.

Jacob became the father of the nation of Israel and Esau became the father of the Arab nations.

Narions are not "vessels" of wrath or mercy, people are those "vessels"

 

[iamaberean]

God made promises to Abraham and Isaac.
Esau despised his those promises that were his birthright as the firstborn, and sold them to his brother Jacob for a bowl of pottage.

Jacob became the father of the nation of Israel and Esau became the father of the Arab nations.

Narions are not "vessels" of wrath or mercy, people are those "vessels"

Wrong!

King Herod, the scribes and Pharisees were of Esau's lineage.

 

[Stone.chapel]

Wrong!

King Herod, the scribes and Pharisees were of Esau's lineage.

Right; I absolutely agree with this comment; since Paul is quoting the same Story of the Potter and Clay in Jeremiah 18:1-10 in the OT when he wrote Romans 9:21-23 in the NT.

Since Jeremiah 18 has made it clear that those “vessels” are allegorical symbols used to represent entire “nations”.

However, the respondent clearly has no idea of what he’s talking about.


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[glorydaz]

However, Romans 9:21-23 has made it clear that God can still discern or discriminate between the “vessels of wrath” and “vessels of mercy”.

Those allegorical “vessels” represent entire nations according to Romans 9:21-23; since Paul is quoting the Story of the Potter and Clay in Jeremiah 18 when he wrote Romans Chapter 9.

Therefore, God can discriminate on the basis of one’s nationality, but it’s tough luck on those who have the wrong type of passport (Romans 9:22); as such people will be obliterated during the Great Tribulation: Isaiah 24:1, 5, 6.

According to Romans 9:22-23 not all countries will survive the Great Tribulation; since God will discriminate between the “vessels of wrath” and “vessels of mercy”.



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Right; I absolutely agree with this comment; since Paul is quoting the same Story of the Potter and Clay in Jeremiah 18:1-10 in the OT when he wrote Romans 9:21-23 in the NT.

Since Jeremiah 18 has made it clear that those “vessels” are allegorical symbols used to represent entire “nations”.

However, the respondent clearly has no idea of what he’s talking about.


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Yep, it looks like Capricorn is sneaking back in. :banned:

 

[musterion]

Yep. What a loser.

 

[Stone.chapel]

Yep. What a loser.

The only losers are those with whom God had foreknowledge would end up in the lake of fire: Revelation 13:8.

But then again, they have no right to complain at all; since they have wilfully (or inadvertently) broken the rules required to enter the Eternal kingdom of Christ: Luke 10:28, John 11:25, 26, Romans 10:9, 10, 1 Corinthians 15:16, 17.

Last but not least, Matthew 7:21-23 is compelling evidence to show that many will fail the Judgment because they have inadvertently broken rules; since there is no other reason for them to appeal or contest the FINAL Judgment, unless they have inadvertently broken the law of the covenant: Luke 10:28, John 11:25, 26, Romans 10:9, 10, and 1 Corinthians 15:16, 17.

For Jesus said, “Do this and you will live (or else, you will perish in the lake of fire)”: Luke 10:28.

Since many are destined to fail the Judgment (Matthew 7:13, 14, 22:14), but all of those who have failed have invariably disobeyed (or rejected) Jesus’s commandment in Luke 10:28.

All of the claimants in Matthew 7:21-23 have insisted that they are “sheep”, whereas, the final verdict is in contradiction with their self righteous, and self deluded view of themselves.

Many of those claimants would have failed by inadvertently rejecting the Word of Christ; so, whether wilful or unintended, it makes no difference to the end result, which is death in the lake of fire: Matthew 7:21-23.

Therefore, no quarter will be spared for those who are allegedly ignorant of the Word of God, which is the Lord Jesus Christ: John 1:1, Revelation 19:13.

Ultimately, those who are condemned have no right to complain whatsoever; since God’s Judgment of those condemned can only be righteous: John 5:30.




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