Elephants, evolution, and cancer

[Jose Fly]

What elephants can teach scientists about fighting cancer in humans

It turns out just 4.8% of known elephant deaths are related to cancer. For humans, cancer-related deaths are much higher — between 11% and 25%, scientists say.

The low cancer rate among elephants is particularly intriguing because all things being equal, elephants should get more cancer than we do.

Elephants have about 100 times more cells than humans, and they live for about 70 years. That gives a lot of cells a lot of chances to mutate and become malignant over the course of a pachyderm’s lifetime...

...In a study published this week in the Journal of the American Medical Assn., scientists reveal that African elephants have 20 copies of a gene called TP53. This gene is prized by cancer researchers because of its ability to create a protein that suppresses tumors; in fact, scientists often refer to it as the “guardian of the genome.”

Humans, on the other hand, have just one copy of TP53.

The crucial gene keeps cells safe from cancer in two ways, according to Dr. Joshua Schiffman, a pediatric oncologist at the Huntsman Cancer Institute in Salt Lake City and a senior author of the study.

“When there is DNA damage, it rushes onto the scene and stops your cells from dividing so the DNA can be repaired,” Schiffman said. “It also coordinates cell death or suicide.”

At an evolutionary biology conference, Schiffman happened to listen to a talk by Carlo Maley of Arizona State University. Maley said elephants had multiple copies of TP53, and Schiffman wondered whether they helped elephants fend off cancer.

To find out, he teamed up with Maley, an elephant keeper at Utah’s Hogle Zoo in Salt Lake City and the chief veterinarian for the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus. (The circus also contributed $250,000 to fund the research.)

Next, they took a closer look at the African elephant genome and tallied 20 copies of TP53. One of them was the original, and the other 19 were retrogenes that found their way into the genome over time. Their spread suggests they were preferentially selected over the course of elephant evolution, probably because they helped elephants in some way.

Perhaps they helped by fighting cancer. To see whether this could be the case, the researchers collected white blood cells from elephants and humans and exposed the cells to radiation that caused their DNA to break.

The researchers expected that the elephant cells with all those extra TP53 genes would repair themselves faster than the human cells. But that's not what they observed.

Instead, they saw that the elephant cells were dying at a much higher rate than the human cells.

While this may sound like a bad thing, it isn't. Part of TP53's tumor-suppression strategy is to cause a damaged cell to destroy itself so that it won’t pass on potentially harmful mutations.

So a few things...

1) We see once again how an evolutionary understanding produces very real, tangible results.

2) If God created all this, why would He give elephants extra cancer-fighting genes, but not His special creation, humans?

3) It looks like having multiple copies of a gene...something that occurs via mutation...produces not only a real physical difference, but a positive benefit. So would this be an example of "new genetic information"?

4) Finally, why are these sorts of things always coming from mainstream biology, to which evolution is foundational? Why don't we ever see the folks at AiG or ICR generating such results? Too busy building museums and theme parks? :think:

 

[way 2 go]

1) We see once again how an evolutionary understanding produces very real, tangible results.

once again just observations viewed from evolution perspective

2) If God created all this, why would He give elephants extra cancer-fighting genes, but not His special creation, humans?

he also didn't give us a trunk for a nose or tusks

3) It looks like having multiple copies of a gene...something that occurs via mutation...

evolutionist opinion

It looks like having multiple copies of a gene produces not only a real physical difference, but a positive benefit.

every time ?

So would this be an example of "new genetic information"?

the knowledge of it is new
less junk DNA everyday

4) Finally, why are these sorts of things always coming from mainstream biology, to which evolution is foundational? Why don't we ever see the folks at AiG or ICR generating such results? Too busy building museums and theme parks? :think:

Why would you expect evolutionist observations from AiG or ICR

 

[George Affleck]

What elephants can teach scientists about fighting cancer in humans



So a few things...

1) We see once again how an evolutionary understanding produces very real, tangible results.

2) If God created all this, why would He give elephants extra cancer-fighting genes, but not His special creation, humans?

3) It looks like having multiple copies of a gene...something that occurs via mutation...produces not only a real physical difference, but a positive benefit. So would this be an example of "new genetic information"?

4) Finally, why are these sorts of things always coming from mainstream biology, to which evolution is foundational? Why don't we ever see the folks at AiG or ICR generating such results? Too busy building museums and theme parks? :think:

Of course none of this could have anything to do with the fact that sin began with humans and not with elephants. Of course not; there is no such thing as sin!

 

[fzappa13]

What elephants can teach scientists about fighting cancer in humans



So a few things...

1) We see once again how an evolutionary understanding produces very real, tangible results.

2) If God created all this, why would He give elephants extra cancer-fighting genes, but not His special creation, humans?

3) It looks like having multiple copies of a gene...something that occurs via mutation...produces not only a real physical difference, but a positive benefit. So would this be an example of "new genetic information"?

4) Finally, why are these sorts of things always coming from mainstream biology, to which evolution is foundational? Why don't we ever see the folks at AiG or ICR generating such results? Too busy building museums and theme parks? :think:

mmmm ... let's see ... elephants don't eat at McDonald's, they aren't required to endure mandatory vaccinations, they don't drink chlorinated or fluoridated water ... need I go on?

 

[way 2 go]

mmmm ... let's see ... elephants don't eat at McDonald's, they aren't required to endure mandatory vaccinations, they don't drink chlorinated or fluoridated water ... need I go on?

:chuckle:

 

[patrick jane]

What elephants can teach scientists about fighting cancer in humans



So a few things...

1) We see once again how an evolutionary understanding produces very real, tangible results.

2) If God created all this, why would He give elephants extra cancer-fighting genes, but not His special creation, humans?

3) It looks like having multiple copies of a gene...something that occurs via mutation...produces not only a real physical difference, but a positive benefit. So would this be an example of "new genetic information"?

4) Finally, why are these sorts of things always coming from mainstream biology, to which evolution is foundational? Why don't we ever see the folks at AiG or ICR generating such results? Too busy building museums and theme parks? :think:

and there it is. the typical atheist question - "Well if God can do that then why didn't he do this" ?

what a joke

 

[Lon]

What elephants can teach scientists about fighting cancer in humans

Cool article :up:

So a few things...

:doh:

1) We see once again how an evolutionary understanding produces very real, tangible results.

Not really, imho, just that elephants have cells we don't. Evolution? Not really much of a need here. What you have is, an evolutionary biology conference that sparked the study. Other than that, whatever a scientist's conviction, the results should be the same.

2) If God created all this, why would He give elephants extra cancer-fighting genes, but not His special creation, humans?

Well, you don't read your Bible. I can answer questions all day long, but why do you want all your information second hand???

3) It looks like having multiple copies of a gene...something that occurs via mutation...produces not only a real physical difference, but a positive benefit. So would this be an example of "new genetic information"?

It is an example of 'more' scientific knowledge discovery. It isn't as interesting 'that' they have extra, but more important to understand why they don't have the same problems. Science can give us details and scripture helps explain why elephants have more than humans.

4) Finally, why are these sorts of things always coming from mainstream biology, to which evolution is foundational? Why don't we ever see the folks at AiG or ICR generating such results? Too busy building museums and theme parks? :think:

$$$ mostly. I don't have the funds to do that kind of research BUT there are often Christians involved in these. Your 'us/them' mentality isn't what you think it is.

 

[fzappa13]

... they don't ingest meth, they don't don't smoke, they don't ... am I boring you yet?

 

[Interplanner]

What elephants can teach scientists about fighting cancer in humans



So a few things...

1) We see once again how an evolutionary understanding produces very real, tangible results.

2) If God created all this, why would He give elephants extra cancer-fighting genes, but not His special creation, humans?

3) It looks like having multiple copies of a gene...something that occurs via mutation...produces not only a real physical difference, but a positive benefit. So would this be an example of "new genetic information"?

4) Finally, why are these sorts of things always coming from mainstream biology, to which evolution is foundational? Why don't we ever see the folks at AiG or ICR generating such results? Too busy building museums and theme parks? :think:

It is confusing to hear the expression "an evolutionary understanding produced this..." So the credit is not to evolution, it is to the understanding of the scientists who want it to receive praise? That's a slippery way of putting things.

But perhaps you could help some of us out with a step back. I don't know what there is here that is giving evolution credit. Perhaps a line needs to be unpacked. In the Biblical understanding, there are reasons why the human, through a death that is the result of a rebellion, would succumb or would have weaknesses that animals might not have. This is already part of the record about human longevity. It is down 90% from the period before the flood when there appears to have been different atmospheric conditions.

 

[Interplanner]

once again just observations viewed from evolution perspective

he also didn't give us a trunk for a nose or tusks



evolutionist opinion


every time ?



the knowledge of it is new
less junk DNA everyday


Why would you expect evolutionist observations from AiG or ICR

Try to exhibit some comprehension. Of course he doesn't mean an evolutionary conclusion. He means the helpfulness of the tool. What he has said very harsh, because no one knows where inspiration will come from, but he's right about theme parks.

 

[Interplanner]

What elephants can teach scientists about fighting cancer in humans



So a few things...

1) We see once again how an evolutionary understanding produces very real, tangible results.

2) If God created all this, why would He give elephants extra cancer-fighting genes, but not His special creation, humans?

3) It looks like having multiple copies of a gene...something that occurs via mutation...produces not only a real physical difference, but a positive benefit. So would this be an example of "new genetic information"?

4) Finally, why are these sorts of things always coming from mainstream biology, to which evolution is foundational? Why don't we ever see the folks at AiG or ICR generating such results? Too busy building museums and theme parks? :think:

It's not biology exactly, but you might be interested to know that catastrophist/deluge geologist Michael Oard is working on a slurry simulator because he believes it will produce shale very rapidly. This in turn leads to fuel.

This kind of thing (I've heard of other endeavors like it) will be helpful but will be hated or decapitated by a science community that votes like California and hates fossil fuels, and thinks there is man-made global warming. The crises-mongers of the Left need to stop coal from being used because the West is destroying the planet, which is far more important than the fact that Russia and Islam are destroying civilization.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

...If God created all this, why would He give elephants extra cancer-fighting genes, but not His special creation, humans?...

Why would God create creature's that die at all?

You don't need to comb through all the various reason's that death happen's to see that this world is full of it.

1 Corinthian's 15:

There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.​

DJ

1.0
​

 

[Greg Jennings]

mmmm ... let's see ... elephants don't eat at McDonald's, they aren't required to endure mandatory vaccinations, they don't drink chlorinated or fluoridated water ... need I go on?

That describes every other animal that isn't a human. Why don't they all have this gene?

 

[Lon]

That describes every other animal that isn't a human. Why don't they all have this gene?

Or why don't we have cells like a frog that can be frozen without shattering? Or why don't we have 8 legs like and octopus? "Doesn't God love me?"

"What if" "why not" are mostly complaints/envy (not sure which Jose is going for). We can, instead, study and learn. I'd like a third arm so I can multitask better. God isn't a poor God because I don't have one. He doesn't have to cater to whim to be 'good' according to our varying definitions. All that is, is a demand that He bow to us and our expectations. Such doesn't prove He is God and so "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." THAT is a difficult place for someone who doesn't want a God to exist. Death is the result of sin. Paul tells us that since Adam, death has reigned.

 

[fzappa13]

That describes every other animal that isn't a human.

Except for those that have the misfortune of falling into the clutches of some lab, of course.

Why don't they all have this gene?

Because they are not all Elephants. That said, you are missing the point. As ye soweth so shall ye reap.


... or, you can call it karma if that makes the notion more palatable. Judging the proclivity for cancer without taking into account external input is, in a word, silly.

 

[George Affleck]

The difference between man and animals is that man is the only one of God's creatures that can deny Him.

 

[fzappa13]

Or why don't we have cells like a frog that can be frozen without shattering? Or why don't we have 8 legs like and octopus? "Doesn't God love me?"

"What if" "why not" are mostly complaints/envy (not sure which Jose is going for). We can, instead, study and learn. I'd like a third arm so I can multitask better. God isn't a poor God because I don't have one. He doesn't have to cater to whim to be 'good' according to our varying definitions. All that is, is a demand that He bow to us and our expectations. Such doesn't prove He is God and so "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." THAT is a difficult place for someone who doesn't want a God to exist. Death is the result of sin. Paul tells us that since Adam, death has reigned.

The difference between man and animals is that man is the only one of God's creatures that can deny Him.

Me? I'd kinda like to be able to dunk a basketball but ... my God doesn't love me enough to let me therefore ... there is no God.


:chuckle:

Hose B, how long doth thou kick against the pricks?

 

[Jonahdog]

Of course none of this could have anything to do with the fact that sin began with humans and not with elephants. Of course not; there is no such thing as sin!

Did elephants die at all before man sinned?

 

[George Affleck]

Me? I'd kinda like to be able to dunk a basketball but ... my God doesn't love me enough to let me therefore ... there is no God.


:chuckle:

Hose B, how long doth thou kick against the pricks?

Try dunking donuts!

Mmmmmmmm....donuts!

 

[George Affleck]

Did elephants die at all before man sinned?

If you can't answer that question by now you have not been paying attention.