El-o-Hym = El-o-Human = All-Human = No ego

[granpa]

El-o-Hym = El-o-Human = All-Human = No ego
"Human" is used here in the sense of "Logical"
as opposed to "Animals" which are illogical.

El = ολως = All = Infinity

The Logos of God is infinitely Logical (having no ego) and hence an All-Human or El-o-Hym.

In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with All-Human, and the Logos became All-Human;

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=human&allowed_in_frame=0

human (adj.)
mid-15c., humain, humaigne, "human," from Old French humain, umain (adj.) "of or belonging to man" (12c.), from Latin humanus "of man, human," also "humane, philanthropic, kind, gentle, polite; learned, refined, civilized."

This is in part from PIE *(dh)ghomon-, literally "earthling, earthly being," as opposed to the gods (from root *dhghem- "earth"), but there is no settled explanation of the sound changes involved.

Compare Hebrew adam "man," from adamah "ground." Cognate with Old Lithuanian žmuo (accusative žmuni) "man, male person." 


A person with no ego would not require sleep.
A crucified person stood on a small platform with their arms stretched outward horizontally.
As long as they were awake they could support their weight on their feet but as soon as they fell asleep all of their weight went on to their arms causing intense pain which would wake them back up. 

 

[granpa]

Logos means "worder" which means "human" (since animals dont speak).

 

[beameup]

:kookoo:

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings granpa,

El-o-Hym = El-o-Human = All-Human = No ego
"Human" is used here in the sense of "Logical"
as opposed to "Animals" which are illogical.
El = ολως = All = Infinity 

Elohim is a Hebrew word and one definition is "Mighty Ones". The "El" portion represents "Power or Strength". The "im" portion is a Hebrew plural. Even though the word is plural, the verb used is usually singular, i.e. Mighty Ones (he) created. My understanding of this plural noun/singular verb combination is that it represents the One God working through many agents, in this case God working through the angels to create the world.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[granpa]

Greetings granpa,Elohim is a Hebrew word and one definition is "Mighty Ones". The "El" portion represents "Power or Strength". The "im" portion is a Hebrew plural. Even though the word is plural, the verb used is usually singular, i.e. Mighty Ones (he) created. My understanding of this plural noun/singular verb combination is that it represents the One God working through many agents, in this case God working through the angels to create the world.

Kind regards
Trevor

I see.
That's your story and you're sticking to it.

 

[beameup]

Greetings granpa,Elohim is a Hebrew word and one definition is "Mighty Ones". The "El" portion represents "Power or Strength". The "im" portion is a Hebrew plural.

It's "PLURAL" for a good reason; that's because God is "plural". In Hebrew a "plural" is three.
In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth - Genesis 1:1
The angels had nothing to do with it.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again granpa and greetings beameup,

I see. That's your story and you're sticking to it.

I commend you for being very imaginative in your opening post, and I wondered if you were serious, or just having fun. But yes, I’m sticking to my story, and even disagreeing with beameup.

It's "PLURAL" for a good reason; that's because God is "plural". In Hebrew a "plural" is three.

Are the “gods” (plural – Elohim) of the nations only three gods?

In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth - Genesis 1:1
The angels had nothing to do with it.

Yahweh, God the Father is the Creator and in Genesis 1:26 he invited the angels to participate in the creation of man in the image of God and the angels. Elohim represents God the Father working through various agents and this is verified by Psalm 8:5 where Elohim is translated Angels.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

God the Father is the Creator and in Genesis 1:26 he invited the angels to participate in the creation of man in the image of God and the angels. Elohim represents God the Father working through various agents and this is verified by Psalm 8:5 where Elohim is translated Angels.

And God said, Let US make man in our image, after our likeness - Genesis 1:26a
God is speaking amongst Himself, it's an internal conversation of the Godhead.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him - Genesis 1:27a
God, and God alone, created man, and he created man in HIS image.

 

[chair]

In Hebrew a "plural" is three.

What? Two isn't plural? How about four?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beameup,

And God said, Let US make man in our image, after our likeness - Genesis 1:26a
God is speaking amongst Himself, it's an internal conversation of the Godhead.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him - Genesis 1:27a
God, and God alone, created man, and he created man in HIS image.

I agree there is a plurality in Genesis 1:26, “us”, “our” and “our” and then a singular in Genesis 1:27 “he” and "his". If what you suggest is true about v26, why does the record say “he” and "his" in v27 and not "they" and "their", that is The Father, Son and Holy Spirit? The other alternative is that the plurality in v26 is God speaking to the Angels, and the “he” of v27 is Yahweh, God the Father, who definitely is one person and hence singular. If a builder or architect builds a building, he uses many tradesmen and other labourers, but it still can be said that the architect or builder built the completed item.

David attributes the creation to one being whom he addresses as Yahweh, and he is not the Trinity, but God the Father.
Psalm 8:1-5 (KJV): 1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. 2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. 3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Verse 5 continues on addressing the Creator as “thou” singular. And David in verse 5 is speaking of the creation of man, summarising Genesis 1:26-27, but using different language. While in Genesis 1:1,26-27 the term Elohim represents the One God, Yahweh, the Father and included in this plurality are various “mighty ones” through whom God works, here in Psalm 8:5 we have the component parts separated. It is Yahweh who is the Creator and Yahweh has made man in the image and likeness of Himself and the Angels, or as expressed here a little lower than the Angels. But here the term previously applied to Yahweh and the Angels is applied to the Angels by themselves, because they are “Mighty Ones” because God gave them power and wisdom to help in the creative process of man.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

Greetings again beameup, I agree there is a plurality in Genesis 1:26, “us”, “our” and “our” and then a singular in Genesis 1:27 “he” and "his". If what you suggest is true about v26, why does the record say “he” and "his" in v27 and not "they" and "their", that is The Father, Son and Holy Spirit? The other alternative is that the plurality in v26 is God speaking to the Angels, and the “he” of v27 is Yahweh, God the Father, who definitely is one person and hence singular. If a builder or architect builds a building, he uses many tradesmen and other labourers, but it still can be said that the architect or builder built the completed item.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: - Colossians 1:16 Christ is the subject

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beameup,

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: - Colossians 1:16 Christ is the subject

I suggest that you need to read Psalm 8 again, as it is Yahweh God the Father who is the creator. This is confirmed by Jesus' quotation and allusion to Psalm 8 where he addresses Yahweh as "O Father". Colossians 1:16 must be talking of the spiritual creation, not the Edenic creation. Where Jesus appears in Psalm 8:5 is that he was made a little lower than the angels as Hebrews 2 testifies. He fulfils the role where Adam failed.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

Greetings again beameup,I suggest that you need to read Psalm 8 again, as it is Yahweh God the Father who is the creator.

Sorry, I don't buy the Jehovah's Witness line.
If you are blind to the scripture, it is self-induced.

Elohim is the creator. Elohim is a tri-plural. Elohim is a unity.
I suggest you combine the truths revealed in this tri-verse concerning the triune God:

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. - Isaiah 45:23
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. - Romans 14:11
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. - Philippians 2:10-11

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beameup,

Sorry, I don't buy the Jehovah's Witness line.
If you are blind to the scripture, it is self-induced.

Elohim is the creator. Elohim is a tri-plural. Elohim is a unity.
I suggest you combine the truths revealed in this tri-verse concerning the triune God:

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. - Isaiah 45:23
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. - Romans 14:11
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. - Philippians 2:10-11

Not every Unitarian is a JW, I certainly am not. Are you sure that "im" ending is always three. Yes Elohim is the Creator. Could I ask why in Philippians 2:11 when we bow the knee to Jesus it will be to the glory of God the Father? Why not also to the glory of God the Son if that is the correct Biblical teaching? There is no Athanasian Creed mentioned in the Bible.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

Greetings again beameup,Not every Unitarian is a JW, I certainly am not. Are you sure that "im" ending is always three. Kind regards
Trevor

Three+
Compare the English "pair" with the English "few"

God alone has the capacity to eternally change himself. This was the case with the 2nd person Elohim.
Terms applied to the 1st person Elohim and the 2nd person Elohim are many and varied in the Bible. "father" and "son" were of later revelation.

 

[Clete]

El-o-Hym = El-o-Human = All-Human = No ego
"Human" is used here in the sense of "Logical"
as opposed to "Animals" which are illogical.

El = ολως = All = Infinity

The Logos of God is infinitely Logical (having no ego) and hence an All-Human or El-o-Hym.

In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with All-Human, and the Logos became All-Human;

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=human&allowed_in_frame=0

human (adj.)
mid-15c., humain, humaigne, "human," from Old French humain, umain (adj.) "of or belonging to man" (12c.), from Latin humanus "of man, human," also "humane, philanthropic, kind, gentle, polite; learned, refined, civilized."

This is in part from PIE *(dh)ghomon-, literally "earthling, earthly being," as opposed to the gods (from root *dhghem- "earth"), but there is no settled explanation of the sound changes involved.

Compare Hebrew adam "man," from adamah "ground." Cognate with Old Lithuanian žmuo (accusative žmuni) "man, male person." 


A person with no ego would not require sleep.
A crucified person stood on a small platform with their arms stretched outward horizontally.
As long as they were awake they could support their weight on their feet but as soon as they fell asleep all of their weight went on to their arms causing intense pain which would wake them back up. 

Logos means "reason" or "logic".

Funny how you didn't use any of it when you typed up your opening post.

What is an ego?

Why wouldn't a human have an ego?

What does the ego have to do with needing sleep?

Do you really think it wouldn't have hurt to hold your weight on your feet while being crucified, especially after having been beaten almost to death with a Cat of Nine Tails?

Was it your intention to imply that the cross was somewhat easier for Jesus to bear because He wouldn't have accidentally fallen asleep? Really?




I am constantly amazed at the convoluted pretzels that people are willing to twist themselves into when it comes to doctrine. If you thought like this about your car or your wife or your shoes or the food you eat or any other aspect of your life, you'd die alone and hungry. Assuming, that is, that you didn't managed to poison your whole family or drive off a cliff with your wife in the car within the first 24 hours of living one's life based on such a rationally disconnected way of thinking.
If you wonder why people think you're a lunatic, it isn't because you're on some higher spiritual plain, it's because it's rational to assume that when you hear quacking that there's a duck nearby.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beameup,

Three+ Compare the English "pair" with the English "few".

I am not proficient with Hebrew but the words cherubim and seraphim are also plural, and I believe that you cannot restrict these to three beings. For example in Ezekiel 1 there are four cherubim and my impression is that there are more than three seraphim in Isaiah 6. On some occasions Elohim is used for one being, not necessarily God Himself, but an agent of God. I disagree with the rest of your post and you did not answer my question on Philippians 2. Also Yahweh is the creator, and this can be expressed as Elohim is the creator and please also note in Genesis 2:7 it is Yahweh Elohim that created man.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

Greetings again beameup, I am not proficient with Hebrew but the words cherubim and seraphim are also plural, and I believe that you cannot restrict these to three beings.

You failed to notice that I posted THREE +
Just like I compared a "pair" with a "few".
God is unified as one.
The problem is he's not human, which causes you to stumble.
He doesn't follow inferior "human logic".

Elohim has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the elohim he holds judgment

Psalm 82:1

 

[chair]

2 is plural. Not just 3+

The Hebrew nouns for water and sky also have a plural structure. Are there 3 skies?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beameup,

You failed to notice that I posted THREE +
Just like I compared a "pair" with a "few".
God is unified as one.
The problem is he's not human, which causes you to stumble.
He doesn't follow inferior "human logic".

Yes I did notice it, but I was wondering if you would insist that the plurality of Elohim demands it must be three thus proving the Trinity as you seemed to insist in your early Post. If it can be more than three then it does not prove the Trinity and leaves the door open for my understanding that there are numerous Angels involved in the creation. I take the Elohim portion of Yahweh Elohim in Genesis 2:7 as referring to the involvement of the Angels. Here we have 3+ and yet the Yahweh portion is singular. Yahweh, God the Father is the Creator, and he delegates some of his work to his ministers, the Angels.

Psalm 82:1 Elohim has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the elohim he holds judgment

I believe this is speaking of Yahweh (singular) through his angels (Elohim - plural) is judging the unjust judges in Israel (Elohim - plural). Refer John 10:30-36. It has nothing to do with the Trinity except to refute the claim.

I am not absolutely insisting, but I believe that Philippians 2 and all its detail refutes the Trinity, especially “to the glory of God the Father”. On the other hand I am more interested in looking at “Elohim” and what this term signifies than having a full scale discussion on the Trinity, as this has been adequately presented on both sides elsewhere.

Kind regards
Trevor