Why do the other mature Christians not share your views on my salvation? Perhaps they have better wisdom and discernment? The only one you are making look bad is yourselves and the few who share your immaturity. Your desire to start a church because you cannot find one that teaches 'perfectionism' (which brand out of the many possible?), Open Theism (which type...there are differences in some areas), and Mid-Acts shows your immaturity and shallowness.
Don't Tithe: Give more or less, but not 10%!
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Why do the other mature Christians not share your views on my salvation? Perhaps they have better wisdom and discernment? The only one you are making look bad is yourselves and the few who share your immaturity. Your desire to start a church because you cannot find one that teaches 'perfectionism' (which brand out of the many possible?), Open Theism (which type...there are differences in some areas), and Mid-Acts shows your immaturity and shallowness.
Sozo
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"For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit; nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit.
YOU are a bad tree. The fruit YOU produce is death and condemnation.
LIAR!
"There is NONE who does good, there is not even ONE"
YOU just admitted that righteousness comes from "moral choices".
"By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for ALL time, sat down at the right hand of God"
I'll add more proof later.
SOTK
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I didn't hear this show, but I am sure I would probably agree with Mr. Enyart. I have grown to believe that Tithing is legalistic. I believe in giving money to my church but not because "it's something I'm supposed to do". I tithe because what I have has been given to me by God and I choose to give back to my church in order to be of service. This is something that comes from my heart.
Try putting everything in its original contexts including the verses that talk about righteous actions. My responses to your previous attempts to slam me would also be instructive. Instead of always dealing with the issues, you revert to name calling (argumentum ad hominem). Merely stating your views over and over does not constitute a refutation or proof (any more than when I do the same thing). Quote the original post #s and my entire arguments over 4000 posts. This still would be a fraction of what needs to be fleshed out to fairly represent all that I believe.
Saying we are in the image of God (free moral agency, spirit, will, intellect, emotions, etc.) is not the same thing as saying we are not sinners (so why try to make your out of context quote imply that)? You also might want to start putting the verse numbers for your ideas so we can examine your ideas in CONTEXT.
Who made you a fruit inspector?
Obedience is a NT concept. This does not negate other truths.
There is a difference between physical and moral depravity. Before you can slam me, you have to know the technical definitions of concepts or you are reading your preconceived ideas into my words and making a straw man.
Your shoddy arguments are like the JWs who quote Trinitarian scholars out of context to try to refute the Trinity!?
2 Cor. 7:1 "Since we have these promises, dear friends, let US purify OURSELVES from everything that contaminates body and (SPIRIT= contrary to lighthouse's 'pefectionism' and spirit/flesh ideas), perfecting holiness out of reverence for God."
You conveniently ignored the post with these verses. They are Pauline and cannot be dispensationalized away. Repentant faith is a condition of salvation. This does not mean we save ourselves. It means God is not a divine rapist, reconciliation is not unilateral or coerced, etc. Likewise, when the NT talks about obedience, it does not mean that we save ourselves in our own strength.
2 Peter 1:3-11 concurs with the balance I suggest between God's provision and our response/responsibility.
I Peter 1:13-17 obedience, holiness...we are to live our lives, not be sock puppets.
Saying we are in the image of God (free moral agency, spirit, will, intellect, emotions, etc.) is not the same thing as saying we are not sinners (so why try to make your out of context quote imply that)? You also might want to start putting the verse numbers for your ideas so we can examine your ideas in CONTEXT.
Who made you a fruit inspector?
Obedience is a NT concept. This does not negate other truths.
There is a difference between physical and moral depravity. Before you can slam me, you have to know the technical definitions of concepts or you are reading your preconceived ideas into my words and making a straw man.
Your shoddy arguments are like the JWs who quote Trinitarian scholars out of context to try to refute the Trinity!?
2 Cor. 7:1 "Since we have these promises, dear friends, let US purify OURSELVES from everything that contaminates body and (SPIRIT= contrary to lighthouse's 'pefectionism' and spirit/flesh ideas), perfecting holiness out of reverence for God."
You conveniently ignored the post with these verses. They are Pauline and cannot be dispensationalized away. Repentant faith is a condition of salvation. This does not mean we save ourselves. It means God is not a divine rapist, reconciliation is not unilateral or coerced, etc. Likewise, when the NT talks about obedience, it does not mean that we save ourselves in our own strength.
2 Peter 1:3-11 concurs with the balance I suggest between God's provision and our response/responsibility.
I Peter 1:13-17 obedience, holiness...we are to live our lives, not be sock puppets.
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This is the key. One can also 'tithe' ('tenth' vs OT laws) from their heart with the right motive. It does not have to be legalistic. What principle or guideline do you use for giving? If I gave what I could afford when I could afford it, I would never give.
Well, He is nice to me.:think:
I must have missed that post. I thought she despised you.
I commend you for your backbone of public support. I look forward to seeing the look on sozo's face when I hug him in heaven. He will realize we are saved by Christ, not theological perfection on the doctrine of 'perfectionism' by Bob George (one version of many versions all claiming to be biblical). We see through a glass darkly, but there we will see and know Him as He is. Our divisive doctrinal disputes will be cleared up in an instant so we can focus on Him and each other in love relationship for eternity.
I do not know Yorzhik, so I do not condone or condemn his beliefs or relationship with God or lack thereof (caveat in case sozo gets his shirt in a knot over his opinion).
I listened to the show. I demonstrated that in my first post by commenting that our Fellowship tithes in the manner Bob suggested a Church should handle tithes, if it teaches the people to tithe. For example, the Church pays for the feasts out of the tithes received; the church supports widows and orphans out of the tithes; the people can use some of their own tithe to support people that they come across, who are in need! At least one man sends part of his tithe, to a real Levite in Israel. None of us think that our salvation is dependent upon our tithe. We simply think that just as the law against adultery has not been done away with, neither has the command to tithe been done away with. The Father wants us to tithe cheerfully, especially now that our sin debt has been paid for us by the Son.
I only disagree with Bob, that the tithe is still for us today, but I do agree with him that almost no Church teaches the proper use and handling of the tithe.
If you are in Christ, then you will want to give a tenth. It is impossible for you to give any amount, without calculation. If you truly want to give without calculation, either drop a blank check in the offering plate next time it comes by, or cash out your next paycheck in different denominations, starting with hundreds. Close your eyes, reach in to your wallet and grab some bills and toss them into the plate, and smile cheerfully.
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