Do You Know, Understand and Believe the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ?

[Robert Pate]

This may be one of the most important articles that you will ever read. Not because I wrote it, but because it is about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Only about 10% of professing Christians know and understand the Gospel. There are only a handful of Christians on this Forum that know and believe the Gospel. Perhaps this is why Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14. Jesus was talking about the strait and narrow way that leads to life. The strait and narrow way is Jesus Christ himself. Jesus also said, "I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father but by me" John 14:6.

This article is not about religion. Religion whether it be the Calvinist religion the Catholic religion or whatever religion is anti-Gospel, to be anti-Gospel also means also to be anti-Christ. Organized religion and the Gospel of Jesus Christ are not compatible. You will not hear the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ preached in the organized church.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is best understood in the back ground of the Old Testament. In the Old Testament man is a sinner. He is born into the world as a sinner and lives out his life as a sinner. This is why Paul wrote, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. How then can a sinner become just before a Holy God? There is no work that a sinner can do that will make himself acceptable to God, Romans 4:4. Catholics believe that through works they can become infused with the virtues of Christ and become acceptable to God. This is apparently not working. How then can a sinner be saved? The salvation that God has provided for fallen man is totally and completely outside of himself and is only found in the person of Jesus Christ.

Who is Jesus Christ? Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and our new humanity. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation old things have passed away: behold all things have become new" 2 Corinthians 5:17. Jesus Christ is God's new creation. The old creation or the old Adam was put to death in Jesus Christ, Romans 6:6. God has brought forth a new Adam and a new creation in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed. God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. ALL THINGS have been reconciled unto God by the doing and the dying of his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. That is a lot of truth in one paragraph.

God now sees us and the whole world as, "Complete in Christ" Colossians 2:10 We and the whole world have been totally and completely reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19. Don't expect Calvinist or Catholics to believe that. They would rather eat spiders and scorpions than to believe that or any part of this article. This is highly offensive to religious people. The reason that it is offensive is because it is all about Jesus Christ and not about them. Remember, Jesus said, "I am the way" John 14:6. The Gospel is about Jesus Christ and his way. The way of man is the way of religion.

So then, knowing and believing this what shall we do now? Paul said that... "The Just Shall Live By faith" Romans 1:17. We live by faith in Christ and his Gospel and we have no confidence in the flesh, Philippians 3:3, which is religion. We live believing that God has accomplished his purpose in his Son Jesus Christ, which is our justification. All who believe this Gospel have ceased from their own works (religion) and have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Catholics believe that through works they can become infused with the virtues of Christ and become acceptable to God.

Hey Robert.

I do enjoy studying a variety of belief systems.

Can you please tell me how we know that Catholics believe what you stated above?

Could you direct me to an official Catholic teaching that I can read about that or something?

I mean, it is tempting to believe you but I'd rather hear it from the horses mouth, so to speak.

Thanks.

Peace.

 

[Robert Pate]

Hey Robert.

I do enjoy studying a variety of belief systems.

Can you please tell me how we know that Catholics believe what you stated above?

Could you direct me to an official Catholic teaching that I can read about that or something?

I mean, it is tempting to believe you but I'd rather hear it from the horses mouth, so to speak.

Thanks.

Peace.

Council of Trent, Cannon #9.

"If anyone says that a sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema".

The something else that is required are works.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Council of Trent, Cannon #9.

"If anyone says that a sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema".

The something else that is required are works.

Hmmm....well, discussing Trent could be interesting. I was kind of expecting you to give me something a little newer than 400 something years old. Isn't there anything in the Catholic Catechism?

But why don't we just start by acknowledging that your idea of "knowing, understanding, and believing the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ" could be the "works" of "something else", as well?

"Knowing", "understanding", and "believing" are verbs. They are man "doing something". They are "works".

I wonder why you didn't also cite Canon's 1-3?? :

CANON I.-If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.

CANON II.-If any one saith, that the grace of God, through Jesus Christ, is given only for this, that man may be able more easily to live justly, and to merit eternal life, as if, by free will without grace, he were able to do both, though hardly indeed and with difficulty; let him be anathema.

CANON III.-If any one saith, that without the prevenient inspiration of the Holy Ghost, and without his help, man can believe, hope, love, or be penitent as he ought, so as that the grace of Justification may be bestowed upon him; let him be anathema.(http://www.thecounciloftrent.com/ch6.htm)

Those teach that without God's grace, man cannot be justified and that man cannot be justified before God by his own works.

That is the exact opposite of what you said in your original post.

You have a tendency to say the exact opposite a lot when you try to write about Catholicism.

By the way, Canon 9 is referring to "intellectual assent" alone.

Which is something even you agree with because you state that "knowing, understanding, and believing" are necessary. And that is not "intellectual assent" alone.

So, ultimately, you are in agreement with Canon 9.

Peace.

 

[Robert Pate]

Hmmm....well, discussing Trent could be interesting. I was kind of expecting you to give me something a little newer than 400 something years old. Isn't there anything in the Catholic Catechism?

But why don't we just start by acknowledging that your idea of "knowing, understanding, and believing the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ" could be the "works" of "something else", as well?

"Knowing", "understanding", and "believing" are verbs. They are man "doing something". They are "works".

I wonder why you didn't also cite Canon's 1-3?? :

CANON I.-If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.

CANON II.-If any one saith, that the grace of God, through Jesus Christ, is given only for this, that man may be able more easily to live justly, and to merit eternal life, as if, by free will without grace, he were able to do both, though hardly indeed and with difficulty; let him be anathema.

CANON III.-If any one saith, that without the prevenient inspiration of the Holy Ghost, and without his help, man can believe, hope, love, or be penitent as he ought, so as that the grace of Justification may be bestowed upon him; let him be anathema.(http://www.thecounciloftrent.com/ch6.htm)

Those teach that without God's grace, man cannot be justified and that man cannot be justified before God by his own works.

That is the exact opposite of what you said in your original post.

You have a tendency to say the exact opposite a lot when you try to write about Catholicism.

By the way, Canon 9 is referring to "intellectual assent" alone.

Which is something even you agree with because you state that "knowing, understanding, and believing" are necessary. And that is not "intellectual assent" alone.

So, ultimately, you are in agreement with Canon 9.

Peace.

Catholicism is a denial that the work of salvation has already been done by Jesus Christ and because of his work we can stand before God as complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

Salvation is totally and completely outside of us. Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Well, your response is a good job of ignoring a conversation and switching gears.

Let's see if it holds any truth.

Catholicism is a denial that the work of salvation has already been done by Jesus Christ and because of his work we can stand before God as complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

You have never actually read the Documents of the Council of Trent or the Catechism of the Catholic Church, have you? If you had, you would know that they say the exact opposite of what you do:

“Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father.” (Catechism of the Catholic Church par. 615)

Salvation is totally and completely outside of us. Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.

And the Catholic Church teaches: “No man, not even the holiest, was ever able to take on himself the sins of all men and offer himself as a sacrifice for all.” (par. 616)

“The existence in Christ of the divine person of the Son, who at once surpasses and embraces all human persons and constitutes Himself as the Head of all mankind, makes possible His redemptive sacrifice for all.” (par. 616)

“The Council of Trent emphasizes the unique character of Christ’s sacrifice as “the source of eternal salvation” and teaches that “His most holy Passion on the wood of the cross merited justification for us.” (par. 617)

So no. What you are saying is not true.

Your statements about what the Catholic Church teaches can easily shown to be false. Over and over again.

You really should be ashamed of yourself for being so completely 180 degrees wrong and stating the exact opposite of the truth over and over again.

That is ignorant and misleading at best and lying at worst.

 

[Robert Pate]

Well, your response is a good job of ignoring a conversation and switching gears.

Let's see if it holds any truth.



You have never actually read the Documents of the Council of Trent or the Catechism of the Catholic Church, have you? If you had, you would know that they say the exact opposite of what you do:

“Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father.” (Catechism of the Catholic Church par. 615)







And the Catholic Church teaches: “No man, not even the holiest, was ever able to take on himself the sins of all men and offer himself as a sacrifice for all.” (par. 616)

“The existence in Christ of the divine person of the Son, who at once surpasses and embraces all human persons and constitutes Himself as the Head of all mankind, makes possible His redemptive sacrifice for all.” (par. 616)

“The Council of Trent emphasizes the unique character of Christ’s sacrifice as “the source of eternal salvation” and teaches that “His most holy Passion on the wood of the cross merited justification for us.” (par. 617)

So no. What you are saying is not true.

Your statements about what the Catholic Church teaches can easily shown to be false. Over and over again.

You really should be ashamed of yourself for being so completely 180 degrees wrong and stating the exact opposite of the truth over and over again.

That is ignorant and misleading at best and lying at worst.

The Bible which is God's word and the final authority for the Christian church refutes Catholicism. There is nothing in the New Testament about a church in Rome. John wrote to the seven churches that are in Asia, there is nothing about a church in Rome, Revelation 1:20.

When Paul wrote to the Romans, he did not write to a church in Rome, he wrote to the believers in Rome, Romans 1:7.

The Catholic church is a showboat religion, what is with all of that glitzy stuff? Why do they continue to show Christ being crucified on the cross? Christ is not on the cross, he is in heaven at the right hand of God having victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil. Sin has been abolished by the doing and the dying of Jesus so that now... "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13. No Catholic church needed.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

The Bible which is God's word and the final authority for the Christian church refutes Catholicism. There is nothing in the New Testament about a church in Rome. John wrote to the seven churches that are in Asia, there is nothing about a church in Rome, Revelation 1:20.

When Paul wrote to the Romans, he did not write to a church in Rome, he wrote to the believers in Rome, Romans 1:7.

The Catholic church is a showboat religion, what is with all of that glitzy stuff? Why do they continue to show Christ being crucified on the cross? Christ is not on the cross, he is in heaven at the right hand of God having victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil. Sin has been abolished by the doing and the dying of Jesus so that now... "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13. No Catholic church needed.

R-i-g-h-t.

And since you have repeatedly shown that what you say about Catholicism is always so accurate and true....I should just believe you when you state what you did above.

R-i-g-h-t.

Robert, you repeatedly discredit yourself by ignoring direct questions to you and changing the subject...about Catholicism, about Calvinism, about the Bible itself.

I do wish you peace but you are very hard to have a discussion with because you do not listen well. You just like to talk and change the subject and deflect.

I'm out.

 

[patrick jane]

I mean, it is tempting to believe you but I'd rather hear it from the horses mouth, so to speak.

Thanks.

Peace.

Horses don't talk

 

[beloved57]

This may be one of the most important articles that you will ever read. Not because I wrote it, but because it is about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Only about 10% of professing Christians know and understand the Gospel. There are only a handful of Christians on this Forum that know and believe the Gospel. Perhaps this is why Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14. Jesus was talking about the strait and narrow way that leads to life. The strait and narrow way is Jesus Christ himself. Jesus also said, "I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father but by me" John 14:6.

This article is not about religion. Religion whether it be the Calvinist religion the Catholic religion or whatever religion is anti-Gospel, to be anti-Gospel also means also to be anti-Christ. Organized religion and the Gospel of Jesus Christ are not compatible. You will not hear the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ preached in the organized church.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is best understood in the back ground of the Old Testament. In the Old Testament man is a sinner. He is born into the world as a sinner and lives out his life as a sinner. This is why Paul wrote, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. How then can a sinner become just before a Holy God? There is no work that a sinner can do that will make himself acceptable to God, Romans 4:4. Catholics believe that through works they can become infused with the virtues of Christ and become acceptable to God. This is apparently not working. How then can a sinner be saved? The salvation that God has provided for fallen man is totally and completely outside of himself and is only found in the person of Jesus Christ.

Who is Jesus Christ? Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and our new humanity. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation old things have passed away: behold all things have become new" 2 Corinthians 5:17. Jesus Christ is God's new creation. The old creation or the old Adam was put to death in Jesus Christ, Romans 6:6. God has brought forth a new Adam and a new creation in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed. God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. ALL THINGS have been reconciled unto God by the doing and the dying of his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. That is a lot of truth in one paragraph.

God now sees us and the whole world as, "Complete in Christ" Colossians 2:10 We and the whole world have been totally and completely reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19. Don't expect Calvinist or Catholics to believe that. They would rather eat spiders and scorpions than to believe that or any part of this article. This is highly offensive to religious people. The reason that it is offensive is because it is all about Jesus Christ and not about them. Remember, Jesus said, "I am the way" John 14:6. The Gospel is about Jesus Christ and his way. The way of man is the way of religion.

So then, knowing and believing this what shall we do now? Paul said that... "The Just Shall Live By faith" Romans 1:17. We live by faith in Christ and his Gospel and we have no confidence in the flesh, Philippians 3:3, which is religion. We live believing that God has accomplished his purpose in his Son Jesus Christ, which is our justification. All who believe this Gospel have ceased from their own works (religion) and have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

Since when is believing that sinners Christ died for, still being lost anyways, when did that become the Gospel ? You preach that sinners Christ died for are still lost !

 

[beameup]

Horses don't talk

Mister Ed talked.

 

[Clete]

Well, your response is a good job of ignoring a conversation and switching gears.

Let's see if it holds any truth.



You have never actually read the Documents of the Council of Trent or the Catechism of the Catholic Church, have you? If you had, you would know that they say the exact opposite of what you do:

“Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father.” (Catechism of the Catholic Church par. 615)




And the Catholic Church teaches: “No man, not even the holiest, was ever able to take on himself the sins of all men and offer himself as a sacrifice for all.” (par. 616)

“The existence in Christ of the divine person of the Son, who at once surpasses and embraces all human persons and constitutes Himself as the Head of all mankind, makes possible His redemptive sacrifice for all.” (par. 616)

“The Council of Trent emphasizes the unique character of Christ’s sacrifice as “the source of eternal salvation” and teaches that “His most holy Passion on the wood of the cross merited justification for us.” (par. 617)

So no. What you are saying is not true.

Your statements about what the Catholic Church teaches can easily shown to be false. Over and over again.

You really should be ashamed of yourself for being so completely 180 degrees wrong and stating the exact opposite of the truth over and over again.

That is ignorant and misleading at best and lying at worst.

He isn't wrong and he certainly isn't lying, you're just missing the point he's making.

Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone. No works, no statements of faith, no sacraments, no prayers, no nothing other than calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and the believing that God raised Him from the dead.

Catholicism and practically every other Christian group DOES NOT TEACH THAT! The reason they don't teach it isn't some sort of conspiracy or even a secret. They don't teach it because they don't believe it. They don't believe it because they think that Paul and Jesus and the Twelve all taught the same things and, as a result, you get a perversion of the Gospel of Grace; an amalgamation of the gospel as Robert has presented it along with that gospel which applied only to the nation of Israel, which is "another gospel but not another" (Galatians 1:6-7).

“There being no cause in the creature why Grace should be shown, the creature must be brought off from trying to give cause to God for His Grace… He has been accepted in Christ, who is his standing! He is not ‘on probation.’ As to his life past, it does not exist before God: he died at the cross, and Christ is his Life. Grace, once bestowed, is not withdrawn: for God knew all the human exigencies beforehand: His action was independent of them, not dependent upon them…

“The Proper Attitude of Man Under Grace:

“To believe, and to consent to be loved while unworthy, is the great secret.
“To refuse to make ‘resolutions’ and ‘vows’; for that is to trust in the flesh.
“To expect to be blessed, though realizing more and more lack of worth…
“To rely on God’s chastening [child training] hand as a mark of His kindness…

“Things Which Gracious Souls Discover:

“To ‘hope to be better’ [hence acceptable] is to fail to see yourself in Christ only.
“To be disappointed with yourself, is to have believed in yourself.
“To be discouraged is unbelief,—as to God’s purpose and plan of blessing for you.
“To be proud, is to be blind! For we have no standing before God, in ourselves.
“The lack of Divine blessing, therefore, comes from unbelief, and not from failure of devotion…
“To preach devotion first, and blessing second, is to reverse God’s order, and preach law, not grace. The Law made man’s blessing depend on devotion; Grace confers undeserved, unconditional blessing: our devotion may follow, but does not always do so,—in proper measure.”

From Principles of Spiritual Growth - Miles J. Stanford (he was quoting Romans, Verse by Verse by Wm. R. Newell)​

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Robert Pate]

Thank you Clete. That is some wonderful, deeply spiritual writings by Miles J. Stanford. I am thankful that there are some Christian men that still have the truth of God's word. I read almost the whole article. He is right on.

 

[Clete]

Thank you Clete. That is some wonderful, deeply spiritual writings by Miles J. Stanford. I am thankful that there are some Christian men that still have the truth of God's word. I read almost the whole article. He is right on.

Interestingly, he was an Acts 2 Dispensationalist and hated the whole idea of Mid-Acts even though his doctrine was nearly identical to Mid-Acts, the biggest differences I know of having to do with free will.

I was actually in the process of writing him a letter rebutting his arguments in an article he wrote on the topic of Acts 2 dispensationalism when I learned that he had passed away. I doubt that I would have convinced him of anything but now there's no need. He understand perfectly now.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[TulipBee]

Can't get any more historical than God's word.

 

[Robert Pate]

Can't get any more historical than God's word.

All of the above scripture also applies to me who is NOT a Calvinist.