Differences

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Nikita

New member
Hi. I dont want to make a debate.. at all. I am not versed enough and i am a new christian so, controversies... well i dont want to just see controversy. Unfortunately i am in the midst of ephesians with a sister. And i have come across predestination and elect. I am not convinced that Jesus came for the elect as my dear sister in faith has stated. She explained many things including how arminianisme does not make sense. But i am not sure. I am struggling with the belief that once saved always saved, if you dont beleive anymore its because u never were saved in the first place. I dont see how Jesus can say on one hand u choose to not believe yet speak in codes so they dont turn and believe. I dont understand how he can come for the world yet only for some. I know that i definateley dont believe he came for all even unbelievers.

So here are my questions.
Why does this election predestination seem to stem only from Pauline letters. You would think Jesus would be clear on who he came for!!!

Ot says israel is a chosen ppl but Jesus makes clear that those who believe are chosen.

Can anyone show me who Jesus came from within Jesus writtings, not explanations by apostles..

Is it possible to believe a bit of calvinisme and a bit of arminianisme or none of either lol. I find that depending on who i read, if its a calvinist view on arminianisme i am not arminianiste but neither calvinist. Haha. I dont beleive that to believe is works. Therefore the act if believing is necessary. I do believe that god seeks us. We chose to accept. I do believe that some are called more then others. I also beleive that he can harden ones heart to glorify himself. But i believe that the call is to all. All can refuse it.

Prayers to you

Nikki passionate about Jesus Christ my Lord and master

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ok doser

ok doser

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welcome niki!


i'll let others address your questions - i'm almost out of time for the night :wave2:
 
N

Nikita

New member
ok well i have been reading just the titles, clearly this forum is for fun.... so i am off to find another forum that is more scholarly :) Enjoy yourself
in prayer Nikki
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Nikita said:
ok well i have been reading just the titles, clearly this forum is for fun.... so i am off to find another forum that is more scholarly :) Enjoy yourself
in prayer Nikki
Click to expand...
Before you go to a "more scholarly" forum you should learn how to spell the word definitely and likely many other words - :)
 
N

Nikita

New member
Nice. Will do when i stop mixing french with english. Whats with all the anger! Thank God my church did not great me like this. I had forgotten to uninstall the app. But will as of now. Too much anger, or mocking!

Sent from my XT1034 using TheologyOnline mobile app
 
Ask Mr. Religion

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[MENTION=18640]Nikita[/MENTION]

Nikita said:
Can anyone show me who Jesus came from within Jesus writtings, not explanations by apostles..
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Welcome to TOL!

We should not assume that just because Our Lord did not explicitly speak of this or that in what was recorded among the many things that were not (John 21:25), that what the other inspired writers of Scripture spoke about is irrelevant or not as important. We should not be just red letter believers.

That said, Our Lord was quite clear as to exactly who He came to redeem.

He came for those specifically given to Him by God the Father (John 6:39, John 17:24).

Who were those given to Our Lord? The one's who believe, the believing ones. (John 3:16).

Those who believe are the ones so marked out by God for election unto salvation at a point in time known only to God by the ordinary means of hearing the Good News (Romans 3:23; 6:23; 8:1; 10:9; 10:13).

Exatly how those so marked out by God are brought into the Kingdom by God (not by one's own doing) is shown below:

God...
- draws people to Himself (John 6:44,65);
- creates a clean heart (Psalm 51:10);
- appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48);
- works faith in the believer (John 6:28-29);
- chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph. 1:4);
- chooses us for salvation (2 Thes. 2:13-14);
- grants the act of believing (Phil. 1:29);
- grants repentance (2 Tim. 2:24-26);
- calls according to His purpose (2 Tim. 1:9);
- causes us to be born again (1 Pet. 1:3);
- predestines us to salvation (Rom. 8:29-30);
- predestines us to adoption (Eph. 1:5);
- predestines us according to His purpose (Eph. 1:11); and
- makes us born again not by our will but by His will (John 1:12-13).

For more information about this topic, please explore the many links embedded amongst the words in my signature below. Or, you can send me a Private Message here and I will be happy to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

AMR
 
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Crucible

Crucible

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Nikita said:
Why does this election predestination seem to stem only from Pauline letters.
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Philosophy was growing in Greece and Rome, and most of the Gentiles were unfamiliar with Jewish belief let alone Christianity. Paul expressed in a language they would better understand.

But Paul's letters are not the only place you'll find predestination. You'll only find the literal word there, but many places in scripture have an emphasis on sovereign election, especially the Book of Job (which is the oldest book in the Bible), and Numbers.

Ot says israel is a chosen ppl but Jesus makes clear that those who believe are chosen.
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Christianity is Spiritual Israel. It follows with Covenant(al) theology which is a central theme of both Catholicism and Reformed belief, though they differ on several things. I believe Calvin patented the notion before the Roman Church produced their version, simply out of appropriation for the schism that had occurred.
 
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