ECT DID PAUL PREACH A 70 AD MESSAGE ??

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DAN P

Well-known member
Hi to all and one poster says that Paul preached a 70 AD message in Rom 13:11 BUT does not consider the CONTEXT , can you believe !!

Paul taughtt from the O T but not that christ came in 70 AD !!

And Rom 13:11 reads , And this , KNOWING the time , that already ( it is the hour ) HOUR ( for ) us to be raised out of SLEEP for now our salvation ( is ) nearer than when we believer .
#1 the CONTEXT is from a Pauline letter !!

#2 , The Greek word " KNOWING " is in the PERFECT TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and Participle which says when we were saved , all saved in the dispensation of Grace should know this as KNOWING is the Participle ,

#3 , The Indicative Mood means it is a FACT !!


#4 , Since we are already saved for eternity , why is salvation nearer ??


#5 , It is NOT the second coming as the so-called 70 AD claim !!


#6 , It is the Departure of the Body of Christ as we will be RAISED out of sleep ( death ) or out of the sleep from the hearing of ERROR of bible teaching !!

I will probably be teaching them in 101 DISPENSATIONALISM !!

dan p
 
Nick M

Nick M

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Paul said all Israel shall be saved. He was executed before 70. If the authors were alive, and not one stone was upon another, they would have written about it to the tribes knowing it was from God.
 
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Bradley D

Bradley D

Well-known member
Some believe that Paul and other Apostles expected a soon return of Jesus. I believe that they did not have an understanding of the immensity of the undertaking of teaching the gospel to other nations.

"And the gospel must first be preached to all nations" (Mark 13:10).
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
He taught that Christ did certain things during 70 AD but not the total end of the world as in 2 Pet 3, nor the end as in Mt24B.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Nick M said:
Paul said all Israel shall be saved. He was executed before 70. If the authors were alive, and not one stone was upon another, the would have written about it to the tribes knowing it was from God.
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Yes, not to mention that the end never came in 70. We still have sin, death, pain and suffering, so clearly the world is not yet seen the 2nd coming
 
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WonderfulLordJesus

WonderfulLordJesus

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Bradley D said:
Some believe that Paul and other Apostles expected a soon return of Jesus. I believe that they did not have an understanding of the immensity of the undertaking of teaching the gospel to other nations.

"And the gospel must first be preached to all nations" (Mark 13:10).
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There is much teaching to be expectant and ready for the Lord's return. It was not the intent of the Lord, Himself, that the time of His coming would be known per Mark 13:32, this so that all Christians should be vigilant and expectant. This expectancy is reflected in such as 1 Thessalonians 4:15, where Paul speaks to Christ's return for His bride as "we" being alive and remaining at that time, this only one example of Christian expectancy in the early church.

As to the gospel being preached to the entire world, it's a common misunderstanding the gospel must reach all via man, before the return of the Lord for His bride, those who understand the rapture and second coming of our Lord Jesus to earth as different events should also note that there are the 144,000 servants of God in Revelation, as well as an angel preaching the gospel to the entire world, not man, Revelation 14:6. This notion media evangelists or missionaries must reach every last person, in all geographies, every last jungle native, before the Lord returns, is mistaken by this scripture proof. It also errantly places times the Lord ordains, has already ordained, in the hands of man. Catholics just love this idea the Lord requires them to get the world in kingdom shape, before the Lord has their permission to return, pure silliness, a job hell would freeze over, before they get around to any real evangelism of the true gospel. The appointments of sovereign God do not wait on man.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Dan P,
you are not very familiar with Paul. there are several instances where the immediacy of the 2nd coming is mentioned or presumed.

Probably the best indicator is that although Mt and Mk allowed for a delayed 2nd coming, Paul (through Luke and Acts) NEVER seems to think so.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Nick M said:
Of course they did. 70 weeks. Paul said so in his letters. Yet it didn't happen. Instead Romans 11:11.
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Your use of Rom 11 assumes that a second coming has to include a restoration of a theocracy in Israel. It does not, in anything Paul or Hebrews says. Notice carefully what saved means in Rom 9-11. It means to be justified from ones sins. This is available no matter what ethne you belong to. The quote of Isaiah in ch 11 is that it is already here and available in Paul's time.

There are not two programs in the Bible, one for Jews and one for Gentiles.

The Isaian expression that the Redeemer would come take away sins is what John the Baptizer used to describe Jesus. Noting about a theocratic state, although God does rule now in the sense qualified by the passages about his reign, to which all men are expected to submit.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Interplanner said:
Dan P,
you are not very familiar with Paul. there are several instances where the immediacy of the 2nd coming is mentioned or presumed.

Probably the best indicator is that although Mt and Mk allowed for a delayed 2nd coming, Paul (through Luke and Acts) NEVER seems to think so.
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Wouldn't it be more appropriate to check the letters that Paul wrote?
Paul writes about God's long-suffering (Peter learned this from Paul).
 
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D

DAN P

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Dan P,
you are not very familiar with Paul. there are several instances where the immediacy of the 2nd coming is mentioned or presumed.

Probably the best indicator is that although Mt and Mk allowed for a delayed 2nd coming, Paul (through Luke and Acts) NEVER seems to think so.
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Hi and let's see the verses that you wrote on the above ??

I have one for you in 2 Thess 2:1-2 , Explain it or quit saying that Paul was looking for the Departure a so-called Rapture !!

dan p
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
They thought the 2nd coming in judgement would happen right after the DofJ. Paul is so sure of it he never mentions the delay. I'm referring to Mt 24, Mk 13, Lk 21, I Cor 7, as well as the one you mentioned. I Th 2 ends with the anticipatory statement that God's wrath on Israel is already filled up. The apostles often put things that way, even though it would be a few years before an event. Like the 'desolation' at the end of Mt 24.
 
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iamaberean

New member
Nick M said:
Paul said all Israel shall be saved. He was executed before 70. If the authors were alive, and not one stone was upon another, they would have written about it to the tribes knowing it was from God.
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All Israel, as Paul had explained, were the Jews of faith.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
 
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iamaberean

New member
Bradley D said:
Some believe that Paul and other Apostles expected a soon return of Jesus. I believe that they did not have an understanding of the immensity of the undertaking of teaching the gospel to other nations.

"And the gospel must first be preached to all nations" (Mark 13:10).
Click to expand...

Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

The whole world to the Jews and Gentiles, of that time, was not the whole world as we know it today. Paul did not write the letter to us.
This is how we use hermeneutics, so that we might understand the Word of God.
 
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iamaberean

New member
patrick jane said:
Yes, not to mention that the end never came in 70. We still have sin, death, pain and suffering, so clearly the world is not yet seen the 2nd coming
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The end came, it is history that the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. We, Believers, have no sin, no death and no pain.

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
 
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iamaberean

New member
Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
The end came, it is history that the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. We, Believers, have no sin, no death and no pain.
patrick jane said:
Hogwash
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Everything in the bible is true, including the fact that Jesus told his disciples the temple would be destroyed in their generation. By seventy AD all the books in the bible had been written, we know that because the bible is silent about the destruction, but history showed Jesus to be true.
 
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