Did God initiate baptism as a simple litmus test of obedience?

[SimpleMan77]

Someone has to baptize you, so it can't be a work that you do!! You surrender to baptism - you can't baptize yourself.

God says he catches the wide in their own craftiness, but it's the poor of the world, rich in faith, who simply believe him enough to obey that He saves.

The "wise" twist Paul's words to the point they can't even answer the question "why did Paul have his converts baptized immediately upon conversion?"

Those with simple faith say "I believe that God wants to save me through no good of my own, so I'll offer my body a living sacrifice of obedience".


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[jamie]

The "wise" twist Paul's words to the point they can't even answer the question "why did Paul have his converts baptized immediately upon conversion?"

And the answer is very simple, we must die to sin in order to walk with Christ.

Christ does not walk with those who are rebellious, which is as the sin of witchcraft.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings SimpleMan77,

Those with simple faith say "I believe that God wants to save me through no good of my own, so I'll offer my body a living sacrifice of obedience".

Your summary does not cover the significance of baptism. To answer your question “Did God initiate baptism as a simple litmus test of obedience?” The answer is an emphatic NO. Baptism is the response of faith, and is motivated by faith, and is thus a part of faith. Justification is by faith, not by obedience. For a believer, who properly understands the meaning of the crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus, baptism is the appointed means to identify with his death and resurrection as the means of salvation.

The following is an example of some of the essential meaning of baptism and moral implications:
Acts 2:37-38 (KJV): 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Bradley D]

Have also heard that baptism is a dying of the old self and rising up a new person (Christian).

 

[BoyStan]

Baptism is central in the Great Commission as Christ commanded. Peter followed Christ when he included baptism of converts on the Day of Pentecost. If you declare Jesus is Lord then baptism necessarily should follow as a step of obedience to the Lord. Baptism is a command to be obeyed. Many seek to take the emphasis off baptism by talking about faith or some other topic. Today baptism is treated as an option if you ask for it. The church has denied the necessity of obeying Christ's command and following his example in baptism. Baptism is a simple matter of obedience to the Lord's command,so don't muddy the waters with any other considerations. To muddy the waters is a devilish tactic as with Eve in the garden.

 

[COGTHW]

Someone has to baptize you, so it can't be a work that you do!! You surrender to baptism - you can't baptize yourself.

God says he catches the wide in their own craftiness, but it's the poor of the world, rich in faith, who simply believe him enough to obey that He saves.

The "wise" twist Paul's words to the point they can't even answer the question "why did Paul have his converts baptized immediately upon conversion?"

Those with simple faith say "I believe that God wants to save me through no good of my own, so I'll offer my body a living sacrifice of obedience".


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Them people going straight to hell brother if they don't get in that water in the name of Jesus Christ, according to The Lord words. John 3:5 'Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.' To be born of water is not to be born of woman but to be born of God.

 

[Rivers]

Why did Paul say "I was not sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel" (1 Corinthians 1:13-17)? That sounds like something different than the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20). Is there any indication that Paul had others doing the baptizing for him?

 

[Rivers]

John 3:5 'Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.' To be born of water is not to be born of woman but to be born of God.

Jesus explained in the following verse that being "born of water" meant "born of the flesh" (John 3:6). This would be referring to human birth (John 1:13).

 

[Crucible]

Baptism didn't require apostolic authority, it was something largely done by general Christian society. And they used buckets and spoons to avoid suspicion at the local waters.
That pretty much rebukes any legal moderation one wants to put on baptism other than that it requires water, a witness, and obviously, done in the name of Christ.

 

[SimpleMan77]

Did God initiate baptism as a simple litmus test of obedience?

baptism assumes you are part of a church, which not all of us are in these end times.

It's not about being a part of "a church", but about being a part of "the church".

If you are a part of "the church" God will lead you to "a church" for fellowship and so the the true servant-hearted ministry can be used of God to perfect you.

It won't be a perfect group of people, but it will be people who are in the right doctrinal path and who are in the process of God perfecting them.


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[COGTHW]

Jesus explained in the following verse that being "born of water" meant "born of the flesh" (John 3:6). This would be referring to human birth (John 1:13).

Man you sound foolish, Nicodemus asked Him that, HE SAID BE BORN OF WATER AND SPIRIT MEANS TO BE BORN AGAIN.!! Show me in the Scriptures where it say, people where born of a woman when they were baptized.?? You can't, get in that water Sir, get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and call on Jesus Christ for the Holy Ghost.

 

[COGTHW]

It's not about being a part of "a church", but about being a part of "the church".

If you are a part of "the church" God will lead you to "a church" for fellowship and so the the true servant-hearted ministry can be used of God to perfect you.

It won't be a perfect group of people, but it will be people who are in the right doctrinal path and who are in the process of God perfecting them.


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It's only one church hallelujah if they are not in the Apostles Doctrine, that's not the church.

 

[Rivers]

Baptism didn't require apostolic authority, it was something largely done by general Christian society. And they used buckets and spoons to avoid suspicion at the local waters.
That pretty much rebukes any legal moderation one wants to put on baptism other than that it requires water, a witness, and obviously, done in the name of Christ.

At least it seems that they understood that biblical baptism wasn't by full immersion.

 

[Crucible]

At least it seems that they understood that biblical baptism wasn't by full immersion.

Sprinkling or pouring on the head, head dunked, or full body immersion are all ways of baptism. It's simply an act of fealty for adults, or rather an ordinance for children.
For some reason all these churches made an enigma of it- Methodists swear by sprinkling, Baptists swear by full immersion.. I'm pretty sure it's really just because they wanted to show up the Catholic Church in some small way, which has always dunked heads.

 

[Rivers]

I'm pretty sure it's really just because they wanted to show up the Catholic Church in some small way, which has always dunked heads.

Many Protestants seem to think the term "baptize" in scripture means "to immerse" when there is actually no evidence that anyone was ever fully immersed (as far as scripture is concerned). The mistaken notion is that BAPTW means "to dip" the recipient whereas it actually refers to the object (e.g. finger, branch) that was "dipped" in order to apply the blood, oil, or water to the recipient.

 

[COGTHW]

Many Protestants seem to think the term "baptize" in scripture means "to immerse" when there is actually no evidence that anyone was ever fully immersed (as far as scripture is concerned). The mistaken notion is that BAPTW means "to dip" the recipient whereas it actually refers to the object (e.g. finger, branch) that was "dipped" in order to apply the blood, oil, or water to the recipient.

Ohh really.??? Acts 8:38 'And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.' I have the Scriptures.!!! You may not but I do.!!

 

[SimpleMan77]

Many Protestants seem to think the term "baptize" in scripture means "to immerse" when there is actually no evidence that anyone was ever fully immersed (as far as scripture is concerned). The mistaken notion is that BAPTW means "to dip" the recipient whereas it actually refers to the object (e.g. finger, branch) that was "dipped" in order to apply the blood, oil, or water to the recipient.

I wouldn't give you a nickel for what was done by groups after the 1st century if it doesn't match up with the way it was done by those Jesus trained and appointed. You can always find people changing the Gospel to make it more convenient to the flesh.

From John the Baptist to the Book of Acts it was always immersion.


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[SimpleMan77]

Ohh really.??? Acts 8:38 'And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.' I have the Scriptures.!!! You may not but I do.!!

Absolutely correct here. Another scripture is John 3:23
And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

No need for "much water" and no need for the Jordan river if you're not immersing. Only need a 5-gallon bucket to baptize a thousand people.


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[COGTHW]

Absolutely correct here. Another scripture is John 3:23
And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

No need for "much water" and no need for the Jordan river if you're not immersing. Only need a 5-gallon bucket to baptize a thousand people.


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LOL LOL LOL LOL YESSUH.!! AMEN I SAY, I SAY AMEN.!!