Confusion Within The Church At Rome

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
On another thread chrysostom wrote the following:

-18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter
-19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven
-peter got the keys
-and
-the power to bind and loose
-that means he was in charge
-someone must be in charge
-that should be clear

Here the Lord refers to the "keys of the kingdom of heaven," the same kingdom referred to here by the Lord Jesus:

"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Mt.4:17).​

Since the nation of Israel failed to recognize the Lord Jesus as their promised Messiah the setting up of the earthly kingdom has been postponed until the return of the Lord Jesus to earth:

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).​

It will not be until the kingdom is brought to earth when the Apostles will "bind on earth" what "shall be bound in heaven." That will not happen until the Apostles will sit upon twelve tribes judging the twelve tribes of Israel in the kingdom:

"That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Lk.22:30).​

This speaks of the millennial reign of the Lord Jesus, the time when Israel will be restored to her previous position of being a special people unto the Lord. Therefore the "keys of the kingdom of heaven" have nothing to do with what is happening now within the Body of Christ.

The church at Rome is so confused that they do not even understand that the kingdom of heaven is not now on the earth!
 

Nick M

Plymouth Colonist
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The church at Rome is so confused that they do not even understand that the kingdom of heaven is not now on the earth!

At this time God's kingdom is within us. The world will see the kingdom when Christ shows himself to the world.
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
There never was a Christian church in Rome, only a handful of believers.
LOL! That's to ignorant to even comment on.

Confusion Within The Church At Rome

Nonsense. There is no confusion in God therefore there is none in His Holy Catholic Church. Catholic Dogma is infallible. Reject your heresy and return to the True Church of God!

..............Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches. The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.


END EXCERPT QUOTE


 
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Crucible

BANNED
Banned
The binding and loosing is a continuous thing. It is essential to whom God chooses to administer as His providence ordains.

It was something that the Reformists kept in their theologies, particularly John Calvin, who utilizes a notion of sovereign election in place of the Romanist dogma of Peter's succession.

This is a big aspect that a lot of Christians today have become alien to, denouncing everything 'catholic' which resembles any sort of Christianity before the end of the Late Age. Especially in America, which is heterodox capitol as far as I'm concerned- I really just don't put much stock in popular American Christianity :rolleyes:
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
The binding and loosing is a continuous thing.

The "binding and loosing" is the historical and continuous result of the repeated proclamation of the Gospel message and promises of God, from the very beginning of time, until now.
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
The binding and loosing is a continuous thing. It is essential to whom God chooses to administer as His providence ordains.

It was something that the Reformists kept in their theologies, particularly John Calvin, who utilizes a notion of sovereign election in place of the Romanist dogma of Peter's succession.

This is a big aspect that a lot of Christians today have become alien to, denouncing everything 'catholic' which resembles any sort of Christianity before the end of the Late Age. Especially in America, which is heterodox capitol as far as I'm concerned- I really just don't put much stock in popular American Christianity :rolleyes:

You sure would make a good Catholic, or maybe an Eastern Orthodox.
 

Stuu

New member
Catholic Dogma is infallible.

Reject your heresy and return to the True Church of God!
Just imagine if the Emperor Constantine hadn't converted to christianity. You probably wouldn't have even heard of the "Catholic" church, and you wouldn't be submitting yourself to the dictatorship of one particular bishop, appointed politically by other bishops.

Is that what Jesus had in mind when he pointed a magic finger at Simon Peter, if he ever did that? Does the magic of the finger point get transferred to the newly elected pope after the death of the previous one? If so, which of the popes holds the pointed finger magic at the moment?

I think in terms of your particular fantasy world, the OP makes a good point that you haven't really addressed logically.

Stuart
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I think in terms of your particular fantasy world, the OP makes a good point that you haven't really addressed logically.

Yes, Stuart. Those who follow the church at Rome are often unable to answer passages from the Scriptures which contradict the teaching of Rome. In this case they haven't even tried to answer my points in the OP.
 
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