Cincinnati Homicide! Law def.
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Grutch
New member
I guess I'm going to be brave and jump into this one.
All parties screwed up in this situation, I for one will point partial blame on the Cincinnati Cops in this case.
The real blame falls on Nathaniel Jones the stupid fat moron who decided to fill himself up with drugs that screw with his judgement.
I'm a firm believer that once you indulge in drugs or alcohol, you have basicly given your judgement over to any type of chaotic monster you become. You should pay for the consequences you throw yourself into.
Some of these people end up running their car into a family packed sedan heading home from an evening dinner.
Others wake up in a back alley without a memory of what transpired in the last 4 hours and find they have contracted a disease, their wallet missing (gah where's my pants?!)
Nathaniel Jones ran into the Cincinnati Police. These foolish defenders of justice had a difficult time restraining the drugged out beast that Nathaniel had become. Its apparant that during the struggle, the cops crossed the line by desperately swinging their clubs until Jones was under control.
I don't have much of a problem how the situation was handled. Anybody can watch a video of an event and armchair quarterback the situation. In heated exchanges like this we all do stupid things and the police for one didn't handle this one all too well. Batons landing on Nathaniel's Head was just a circumstance of the heated exchange.
Now these cops will be fired in the city's attempt to quell another possible riot. What a shame.
I have seen firsthand how Law Enforcement (or lack of) is handled in other parts of the world. This nation is heading right down that path.
Imagine living in a country where the Police refuse to respond to your calls? Imagine having your house robbed and when you call the police, they delay their response because they don't want to have to deal with the situation.
I have personally witnessed the result of a situation where a family was taken hostage, robbed, the wife and teenage daughter raped and their dog violently killed in front of them. The criminals who did this escaped back into the wilderness where they came from. Just around the corner the police waited until the criminals left the scene. Instead of making a pursuit, or attempting to interfere with the crime they waited to avoid any violent exchange. In the ensuing hours the Police recorded the crime scene and left it at that. To this day the perps were never caught.
In the same country, prisions are overcrowded and break into violent riots which result in many deaths of the prison guards and wardens. If the guards retaliate with guns they are then charged with crimes and imprisoned.
Is this the type of system we want to live in? Keep making the police into villans and one day we can have a system like the one I just mentioned.
Its no doubt that the American criminal justice system is a joke. Compared to anything else I have seen in the world, we are certainly superior. Our system needs fixing but I think we will see it slowly decay over time into a mockery such as those in other countries in the civilized world.
-Grutch
All parties screwed up in this situation, I for one will point partial blame on the Cincinnati Cops in this case.
The real blame falls on Nathaniel Jones the stupid fat moron who decided to fill himself up with drugs that screw with his judgement.
I'm a firm believer that once you indulge in drugs or alcohol, you have basicly given your judgement over to any type of chaotic monster you become. You should pay for the consequences you throw yourself into.
Some of these people end up running their car into a family packed sedan heading home from an evening dinner.
Others wake up in a back alley without a memory of what transpired in the last 4 hours and find they have contracted a disease, their wallet missing (gah where's my pants?!)
Nathaniel Jones ran into the Cincinnati Police. These foolish defenders of justice had a difficult time restraining the drugged out beast that Nathaniel had become. Its apparant that during the struggle, the cops crossed the line by desperately swinging their clubs until Jones was under control.
I don't have much of a problem how the situation was handled. Anybody can watch a video of an event and armchair quarterback the situation. In heated exchanges like this we all do stupid things and the police for one didn't handle this one all too well. Batons landing on Nathaniel's Head was just a circumstance of the heated exchange.
Now these cops will be fired in the city's attempt to quell another possible riot. What a shame.
I have seen firsthand how Law Enforcement (or lack of) is handled in other parts of the world. This nation is heading right down that path.
Imagine living in a country where the Police refuse to respond to your calls? Imagine having your house robbed and when you call the police, they delay their response because they don't want to have to deal with the situation.
I have personally witnessed the result of a situation where a family was taken hostage, robbed, the wife and teenage daughter raped and their dog violently killed in front of them. The criminals who did this escaped back into the wilderness where they came from. Just around the corner the police waited until the criminals left the scene. Instead of making a pursuit, or attempting to interfere with the crime they waited to avoid any violent exchange. In the ensuing hours the Police recorded the crime scene and left it at that. To this day the perps were never caught.
In the same country, prisions are overcrowded and break into violent riots which result in many deaths of the prison guards and wardens. If the guards retaliate with guns they are then charged with crimes and imprisoned.
Is this the type of system we want to live in? Keep making the police into villans and one day we can have a system like the one I just mentioned.
Its no doubt that the American criminal justice system is a joke. Compared to anything else I have seen in the world, we are certainly superior. Our system needs fixing but I think we will see it slowly decay over time into a mockery such as those in other countries in the civilized world.
-Grutch
Aimiel
Well-known member
IMHO
IMHO
I have to wonder why they had six officers at the scene, and couldn't restrain him without so much beating. If I were a police officer, I don't think I would so easily forget the Rodney King tape, or the killing of the other criminal in Cincinnati (Darryl Thomas?), and be so 'club-happy.' Don't they have pepper spray? Why aren't there more tazers? This guy bought his trouble with his drugged-up state and the initial attack on the officer(s), but the response was brutal. I don't see that racism is involved, but the ever-present promoters of racial strife are screaming, "Foul!!!"
IMHO
I have to wonder why they had six officers at the scene, and couldn't restrain him without so much beating. If I were a police officer, I don't think I would so easily forget the Rodney King tape, or the killing of the other criminal in Cincinnati (Darryl Thomas?), and be so 'club-happy.' Don't they have pepper spray? Why aren't there more tazers? This guy bought his trouble with his drugged-up state and the initial attack on the officer(s), but the response was brutal. I don't see that racism is involved, but the ever-present promoters of racial strife are screaming, "Foul!!!"
Grutch
New member
Re: IMHO
Re: IMHO
As I said before it's easy to armchair quarterback this situation. Had you been caught up in the moment, you don't know how you would have responded exactly. I'm with Granite on this one.
The only fault I have with the police is that they stood around while Nathaniel passed out and later stopped breathing. An attempt at keeping him alive may have helped them keep their jobs.
-Grutch
Re: IMHO
As I said before it's easy to armchair quarterback this situation. Had you been caught up in the moment, you don't know how you would have responded exactly. I'm with Granite on this one.
The only fault I have with the police is that they stood around while Nathaniel passed out and later stopped breathing. An attempt at keeping him alive may have helped them keep their jobs.
-Grutch
Oh, now you're gonna get all soft on us? I thought you were willing to beat the crap out of somebody for even the smallest reason if it benefited you. Now you wanna talk about proportion all of a sudden????????? Show me a single post of yours where proportion was ever a consideration! The heck with proportion, this is about stupidity and survival!!!! Tell you what, grab your slingshot and a handful of pebbles then go to your nearest police station. Walk in and start shooting the cops with rocks and see how long you last. They'll take you in the back room and bounce you off a few walls. Now consider that you were just one person in that police station compared to the size of the mob at Kent State. Imagine you are one of the 19 year old National Guardsmen who is being advanced upon by hundreds of rock throwing hippie freaks who won't stop and you feel your life threatened. You consider that you might die if you do not stop this mob and you remember that you are holding an M-16 in your hands. A rock hits you and you finally have had enough of this crap! You blast a few of the morons throwing rocks and the rest scatter.
Well done. Case closed. "Anybody else want some of this!!!"
Well done. Case closed. "Anybody else want some of this!!!"
Grutch
New member
Actually to kill a few people in the Mob does a great job of quelling a Riot. If the police in Los Angeles went into the situation and shot some people, we wouldnt have had the property damage and innocent lives lost.
Don't equate people mixed up in the Riot with innocents. I don't care if you're out in the Mob to administer medical aid and try to calm people down. If there's a curfew imposed or Martial Law, the rules are to stay home. Let the system try to bring things back in order. The moment you step outside you're fair game.
-Grutch
Don't equate people mixed up in the Riot with innocents. I don't care if you're out in the Mob to administer medical aid and try to calm people down. If there's a curfew imposed or Martial Law, the rules are to stay home. Let the system try to bring things back in order. The moment you step outside you're fair game.
-Grutch
Gerald
Resident Fiend
BB, I recommend switching to decaf. After all, life would get boring if I didn't throw the occasional curve ball.
And you, sir, are living proof that stupidity survives (You're slipping, BB; you walked right into that one...:chuckle: )
Actually, if I was going to take on the police, I'd bring an armored car and a few racks of rifle grenades loaded with sarin gas...
True enough. I suppose it could've been worse: the Guard could've just started lobbing frag grenades, then shooting the protesters in the back as they ran away. Then we could've had our very own "Bloody Sunday"
While we're on the topic, I've always wondered why Bull Connor didn't have the cajones to use bullets instead of dogs and fire hoses...
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2MuchCoffeeMan
New member
Hmm...funny thing, that. I've heard about the Kent State thing hundreds of times. Can't say I ever picked up a book and researched or anything, though. A bit before my time. Still...I never heard anything about them throwing rocks at the Guardsmen. In fact, I always got the impression that it was a peaceful demonstration. Odd.
Furthermore, I work on an acute psychiatric unit. I've seen the policy on physical and chemical restraints, as well as PMAB (prevention and maintenance of aggressive behavior) change drastically over the last ten years in respond to this law suit or that news story. I can say one thing for certain, and can't emphasis it enough - no matter how much it may seem to fly in the face of common sense - the more rules your have, the more policy you institute to try to prevent unnecessary injury on the part of the patient, the more complex and difficult to judge every incident of violent behavior becomes. It comes to point rather quickly, as it has on my unit, when you simply can't do you job the way the upper management folks say you should and still maintain any degree of safety on the unit.
As of now, we have ten times (at least) more instances of patient's injuring other patients than we do of staff injurying patients during such incidents. Er...this is progress?
Sure we, the employees of the unit, can say honestly that we didn't accidently break the young schizophrenic's arm pulling him off the depressed patient. But, on the other hand, the depressed patient is in traction now. We're clean, but our patient is gravely injured. That doesn't seem like a positive change to me.
The fact is, if you don't have good police officers then no matter how you train them to deal with situations like this it won't go well. If you do have good officers you won't need complex policies and intensive training on how to subdue 350 lb stoners.
Incidents like this almost never end well. That's terrible, but that's also why we outlaw that kind of behavior. Expecting police officers to subdue guys like this, and insisting on a perfect outcome everytime (or even an positive outcome), is irrational.
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