Calvinism: A Detour Around Christ and His Gospel

R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
John Calvin never did accept or believe Martin Luther's doctrine of justification by faith. This is why he came up with his doctrine of predestination. To believe that you are justified by faith is to believe that you have been justified by Christ, Romans 3:26, which is the Gospel. Martin Luther believed the Gospel. John Calvin never did. Justification by faith and predestination are conflicting doctrines. This is why Calvin and Luther were not friends.

Calvinism is nothing more than a detour around Christ and his Gospel. There really is no good news in Calvinism. They believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are ever born. You have to be totally and completely void of the Holy Spirit to believe that about God. If that is not bad enough, they believe that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world, when scripture makes it clear that he did, 1 John 2:2. This is very serious, because if Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world, then Jesus is not Lord and we are all still in our sins, John 8:24. No one will be saved that does not believe that Jesus is Lord and has atoned for the sins of the whole world.

Most religions including Calvinism, are designed to obscure the Gospel or eliminate it completely. Catholicism has eliminated it completely. There is no Gospel in the Catholic doctrine. They believe that Jesus is the savior, but he doesn't save completely. You must participate in your own salvation by what you do and by what you have become. Paul makes it clear that there is none righteous, no, not one, Romans 3:10. We have nothing to offer God that will merit our salvation. To believe that you do is to be in conflict with the Gospel and justification by faith.

In the Gospel Jesus clothes himself in human flesh and becomes one with us, but not one of us. He is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17. Our old Adamic humanity was put to death in Jesus Christ. This is what Paul meant when he said, "I have been crucified with Christ" Galatians 2:20. When Jesus came out of Joseph's new tomb we came out with him. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed by the doing and the dying of Jesus. God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. All things, including us, have been reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. We now stand complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. This is the Gospel that Paul preached that reconciles us and the world unto God and justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5. There is only one Gospel and this is it. There are many other false Gospels, but they do not justify or save. Jesus saves and he saves to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
You are blinded to the Gospel!

2 Tim. 1:8-9
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
 
fishrovmen

fishrovmen

Active member
Robert Pate said:
John Calvin never did accept or believe Martin Luther's doctrine of justification by faith. This is why he came up with his doctrine of predestination. To believe that you are justified by faith is to believe that you have been justified by Christ, Romans 3:26, which is the Gospel. Martin Luther believed the Gospel. John Calvin never did. Justification by faith and predestination are conflicting doctrines. This is why Calvin and Luther were not friends.

Calvinism is nothing more than a detour around Christ and his Gospel. There really is no good news in Calvinism. They believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are ever born. You have to be totally and completely void of the Holy Spirit to believe that about God. If that is not bad enough, they believe that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world, when scripture makes it clear that he did, 1 John 2:2. This is very serious, because if Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world, then Jesus is not Lord and we are all still in our sins, John 8:24. No one will be saved that does not believe that Jesus is Lord and has atoned for the sins of the whole world.

Most religions including Calvinism, are designed to obscure the Gospel or eliminate it completely. Catholicism has eliminated it completely. There is no Gospel in the Catholic doctrine. They believe that Jesus is the savior, but he doesn't save completely. You must participate in your own salvation by what you do and by what you have become. Paul makes it clear that there is none righteous, no, not one, Romans 3:10. We have nothing to offer God that will merit our salvation. To believe that you do is to be in conflict with the Gospel and justification by faith.

In the Gospel Jesus clothes himself in human flesh and becomes one with us, but not one of us. He is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17. Our old Adamic humanity was put to death in Jesus Christ. This is what Paul meant when he said, "I have been crucified with Christ" Galatians 2:20. When Jesus came out of Joseph's new tomb we came out with him. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed by the doing and the dying of Jesus. God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. All things, including us, have been reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. We now stand complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. This is the Gospel that Paul preached that reconciles us and the world unto God and justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5. There is only one Gospel and this is it. There are many other false Gospels, but they do not justify or save. Jesus saves and he saves to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25.
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You either cannot read or enjoy bearing false witness, or both. Liars will not detour around truth and justice and judgment to get to eternal life.
 
T

Truster

New member
Roberto,

If you weren't so tragically and judicially deluded I would laugh.

I will leave the laughter to Him that sits on high, because He, will have you in derision. Psalm 2.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Nanja said:
You are blinded to the Gospel!

2 Tim. 1:8-9
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
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You don't have the right Gospel.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the Gospel that reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
fishrovmen said:
You either cannot read or enjoy bearing false witness, or both. Liars will not detour around truth and justice and judgment to get to eternal life.
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To bad that you don't have scripture to refute what I say. Can it be that you might be wrong?
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Truster said:
Between you and the Eternal Almighty? I'll say He will and that laughter will echo through eternity at the great defeat of His enemies.
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You apparently think that I am lost and believe that God will laugh at me.

By your words you will be condemned. You like many other Calvinist have this warped perverted view of the character and nature of God.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
You apparently think that I am lost and believe that God will laugh at me.

By your words you will be condemned. You like many other Calvinist have this warped perverted view of the character and nature of God.
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You teach that God has perverted Justice, teaching that sinners Christ died for already are still condemned and lost !
 
fishrovmen

fishrovmen

Active member
Robert Pate said:
That scripture does not refute what I have said. That is just your personal evaluation of me which is not worth much.
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My post about your inability to read and/or love of falsehood is based on John Calvins work entitled "Of Justification by Faith" which if you could read and were a lover of truth, you would clearly see that several of the points you made were false.
I highly doubt that you read any of it.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
fishrovmen said:
My post about your inability to read and/or love of falsehood is based on John Calvins work entitled "Of Justification by Faith" which if you could read and were a lover of truth, you would clearly see that several of the points you made were false.
I highly doubt that you read any of it.
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We are justified by faith, plus nothing. If you add predestination to justification by faith then you have heresy. This is what John Calvin did. We are justified by faith because we are justified by Christ. If we are justified by Christ then predestination is worthless. It is Jesus Christ that saves us, not predestination.
 
fishrovmen

fishrovmen

Active member
Robert Pate said:
We are justified by faith, plus nothing. If you add predestination to justification by faith then you have heresy. This is what John Calvin did. We are justified by faith because we are justified by Christ. If we are justified by Christ then predestination is worthless. It is Jesus Christ that saves us, not predestination.
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I did not see one mention of the word predestination in Calvins "Of Justification by Faith". Not only that, I saw many places where he taught justification by faith alone.
I also saw other proofs to expose other lies that you have posted about what Calvin taught in your redundant threads.
Since you believe that Calvin teaches a combination of faith and predestination for justification, why don't you show where he teaches this?
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Robert Pate said:
John Calvin never did accept or believe Martin Luther's doctrine of justification by faith. This is why he came up with his doctrine of predestination. To believe that you are justified by faith is to believe that you have been justified by Christ, Romans 3:26, which is the Gospel. Martin Luther believed the Gospel. John Calvin never did. Justification by faith and predestination are conflicting doctrines. This is why Calvin and Luther were not friends.

Calvinism is nothing more than a detour around Christ and his Gospel. There really is no good news in Calvinism. They believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are ever born. You have to be totally and completely void of the Holy Spirit to believe that about God. If that is not bad enough, they believe that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world, when scripture makes it clear that he did, 1 John 2:2. This is very serious, because if Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world, then Jesus is not Lord and we are all still in our sins, John 8:24. No one will be saved that does not believe that Jesus is Lord and has atoned for the sins of the whole world.

Most religions including Calvinism, are designed to obscure the Gospel or eliminate it completely. Catholicism has eliminated it completely. There is no Gospel in the Catholic doctrine. They believe that Jesus is the savior, but he doesn't save completely. You must participate in your own salvation by what you do and by what you have become. Paul makes it clear that there is none righteous, no, not one, Romans 3:10. We have nothing to offer God that will merit our salvation. To believe that you do is to be in conflict with the Gospel and justification by faith.

In the Gospel Jesus clothes himself in human flesh and becomes one with us, but not one of us. He is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17. Our old Adamic humanity was put to death in Jesus Christ. This is what Paul meant when he said, "I have been crucified with Christ" Galatians 2:20. When Jesus came out of Joseph's new tomb we came out with him. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed by the doing and the dying of Jesus. God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. All things, including us, have been reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. We now stand complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. This is the Gospel that Paul preached that reconciles us and the world unto God and justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5. There is only one Gospel and this is it. There are many other false Gospels, but they do not justify or save. Jesus saves and he saves to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25.
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You know that I am no fan of Calvin or of Calvinism and while agree that Calvinism is antithetical to the gospel, I sort of think you might be giving Calvin more credit than he deserves. My understanding is that Calvinism is little more than Reformed Augustinian doctrine. Which is to say that the Calvinists distinctives like the TULIP doctrines and the doctrine of predestination in particular were all introduced into Christianity by Augustine of Hippo in the late 4th and early 5th century and that Calvinism is just a formalization of Luther's reforms. Luther, after all, was an Augustinian monk.

Do you have any documentation of the idea that Luther rejected predestination?

Clete
 
Clete

Clete

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Silver Subscriber
fishrovmen said:
I did not see one mention of the word predestination in Calvins "Of Justification by Faith". Not only that, I saw many places where he taught justification by faith alone.
I also saw other proofs to expose other lies that you have posted about what Calvin taught in your redundant threads.
Since you believe that Calvin teaches a combination of faith and predestination for justification, why don't you show where he teaches this?
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To even try to deny it is proof of near complete ignorance of the topic.

“God is moved to mercy for no other reason but that he wills to be merciful.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 8)

“… predestination to glory is the cause of predestination to grace, rather than the converse.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 9)

“Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christia/n Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)

“We cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just as it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 11)

“We hold that God is the disposer and ruler of all things, –that from the remotest eternity, according to his own wisdom, He decreed what he was to do, and now by his power executes what he decreed. Hence we maintain, that by His providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 8)

"All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion Book 5, Chapter 21, paragraph 5)​

According to Calvin, nothing at all happens that God did not predestined, including what they refer to as "faith".

Resting in Him,
Clete
 
fishrovmen

fishrovmen

Active member
Clete said:
To even try to deny it is proof of near complete ignorance of the topic.

“God is moved to mercy for no other reason but that he wills to be merciful.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 8)

“… predestination to glory is the cause of predestination to grace, rather than the converse.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 9)

“Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christia/n Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)

“We cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just as it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 11)

“We hold that God is the disposer and ruler of all things, –that from the remotest eternity, according to his own wisdom, He decreed what he was to do, and now by his power executes what he decreed. Hence we maintain, that by His providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 8)

"All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion Book 5, Chapter 21, paragraph 5)​

According to Calvin, nothing at all happens that God did not predestined, including what they refer to as "faith".

Resting in Him,
Clete
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I neither affirm nor deny the claim that Calvin taught justification by faith and predestination because I AM ignorant of his teachings. That is why I asked Robert to post the source for his claim.
None of the quotes you posted here mention justification. If Calvin wrote about justification by faith alone in the work I referenced, then according to Robert, he changed his mind at some point before or after.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Clete said:
You know that I am no fan of Calvin or of Calvinism and while agree that Calvinism is antithetical to the gospel, I sort of think you might be giving Calvin more credit than he deserves. My understanding is that Calvinism is little more than Reformed Augustinian doctrine. Which is to say that the Calvinists distinctives like the TULIP doctrines and the doctrine of predestination in particular were all introduced into Christianity by Augustine of Hippo in the late 4th and early 5th century and that Calvinism is just a formalization of Luther's reforms. Luther, after all, was an Augustinian monk.

Do you have any documentation of the idea that Luther rejected predestination?

Clete
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Taken from, "A Compend of Luther's Theology" Conversations with Luther, pp 135.

"When a man begins to discuss predestination, the temptation is like an inextinguishable fire: the more he disputes, the more he despairs. Our Lord God is opposed to this disputation and accordingly he has provided against it baptism, the Word, the sacraments and various signs. In these we should trust and say: "I am baptized, I believe in Jesus Christ; what does it concern me, whether or not I am predestinated.?" He has given us ground to stand on, that is Jesus Christ, and through him we may climb to heaven. He is the one way and the gate to the Father. but when we begin in the devil's name to build first on the roof above, scorning the ground, then we fall! . . . I forget all that Christ and God are, when I get to thinking about this matter, AND COME TO BELIEVE THAT GOD IS A VILLAIN. We ought to remain by the word, in which God is revealed to us and salvation is offered, if we believe it. Moreover in trying to understand predestination, we forget God, we cease to praise and BEGIN TO BLASPHEME. in Christ however, are hid all treasures; without him none may be had. Therefore we should give no place whatever to this argument concerning predestination".
 
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