Calling all Open Theists for Feedback

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Dear Open Theists...

I am leading up to something and I would deeply appreciate scriptural support or rebuttal. I believe there is a major theological issue within the unified "Body of Grace" that makes Open Theism imperative to bring to the forefront.

I believe we need to ("insight" / "incite") theological "Reformation". I have buried my Anti-Calvinism Hatchet, because the "True Reformists" recognize the need to allow "Scripture and Christ to mold us". The "True" Reformists shun the Cry of Heresy towards all who believe Jesus Is God and Tri-Une, as our sole source of salvation by John 3:16 and Eph. 2:8f. The "True" Reformed, know that reformation is PROGRESSIVE.

I call us all to scripture. I am struggling to communicate a call to (1 Cor. 1:13) unity!

I am calling us all to go back to Scripture together and seek out God with only Scripture and the Holy Spirit as our light. I have no theological pride. Jesus is my PRIDE and Salvation. I would like to evoke John 5:38f, 40 in study and find HIM and His limitless love from Genesis to Revelation!

If you dislike what I am posting in Open Theism and have negative comments towards me... place them HERE... on this OP. If you are anti-open Theism and have negative things to say to me... post them HERE.

If you are OPEN in theology... and have constructive criticism or affirmation via scripture... please link to my thread in the Open Theism club and start quoting scripture! Please, I implore you.

Link to my most recent post... Most Recent Post

Link to entire OP in OPEN Theism Club which is only for pro Open Theism posting... OP Link Here

I respect NO MAN in theology, but only Christ and Scripture! I welcome wounds from friends, but will distinguish from those that are bound to mans agenda.

I have no desire to ever be "Named"! I only desire Glorification of the Name above all names that belongs to our Lord, God and Savior. (Luke 2:11; Is. 43:11; Is. 9:6; Is. 45:5)

Love, Peace and Glory to Christ Alone!

I do not claim to be worthy of being recognized as a scriptural lens! Only the Holy Spirit should be our scriptural lens... and that is personal... But let us draw together an move forward for Christ to be Gloried! Let us be United in Jesus without pride and Share our understanding.

Wherever two or more are GATHERED in HIS NAME (Php. 2:8f, 10)

 

[patrick jane]

What does open theism mean?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

What does open theism mean?

"Not closed to Progressive revelation" of the Spirit through Scripture and God. God is all about "Relationship and Love."

Open to THE HOLY SPIRIT Above the Doctrines of MEN.

Humble to the Leading of GOD!

: )

I believe my signature scripture and verbiage is a fair answer as well.

MAD is OPEN and understands this, as well.

He, ALONE, is "Faithful and TRUE"! (Rev. 19:11)

As the "Son" was "Open" to the "Father", Let us be "Open" to the "Son".

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

John 17:20-23

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Basic Tenets of Open Theism

Basic Tenets of Open Theism

What does open theism mean?

1. God not only created the world ex nihilo but can (and at times does) intervene unilaterally in earthly affairs.
2. God chose to create mankind with incompatibilistic (libertarian) freedom—freedom over which He cannot exercise total control.
3. God so values freedom—the moral integrity of free creatures and a world in which such integrity is possible—that He does not normally override such freedom, even if He sees that it is producing undesirable results.
4. God always desires the highest good, both individually and corporately, and thus is affected by what happens in our lives.
5. God does not possess exhaustive foreknowledge of exactly how we will utilize our freedom, although He may at times be able to predict with great accuracy the choices we will freely make.
(Src: David Basinger in Pinnock’s The Openness of God)

Nevertheless, especially within the confines of TOL, one will find differences of opinion on these basic tenets. For example, there are open theists who will disagree that all of the future is unknowable to God, or that God will never override the libertarian free will of His creatures.

Then, there is this:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...o-you-think-of-it/page4&p=3415136#post3415136

AMR

 

[daqq]

I have buried my Anti-Calvinism Hatchet, because the "True Reformists" recognize the need to allow "Scripture and Christ to mold us". The "True" Reformists shun the Cry of Heresy towards all who believe Jesus Is God and Tri-Une, as our sole source of salvation by John 3:16 and Eph. 2:8f. The "True" Reformed, know that reformation is PROGRESSIVE.

I call us all to scripture. I am struggling to communicate a call to (1 Cor. 1:13) unity!

I am calling us all to go back to Scripture together and seek out God with only Scripture and the Holy Spirit as our light. I have no theological pride. Jesus is my PRIDE and Salvation. I would like to evoke John 5:38f, 40 in study and find HIM and His limitless love from Genesis to Revelation!

I respect NO MAN in theology, but only Christ and Scripture! I welcome wounds from friends, but will distinguish from those that are bound to mans agenda.

If all that you say of yourself is true then here is your chance to change your stance against the Testimony of Messiah whom you claim to know and love. This is again from the now closed thread where you already denied the Testimony of Messiah, (linked at the bottom of the post).

Again, the plain simple flow of systematic logic straight from the Testimony of Yeshua:

The words of Yeshua are Spirit:

John 6:62-63
62 What then if you should behold the Son of Man ascending up to where he was before?
63 It is the Spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life.

The Father judges no one but has committed all judgment to the Son:

John 5:22
22. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:

The man Yeshua does not testify of himself and therefore does not claim to be Elohim:

John 5:31
31 If I testify of myself, my testimony is not true.

The man Yeshua emphatically states that he himself judges no one:

John 8:15
15. You judge after the flesh: I judge no one.

There is only one who judges and he is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 8:50
50. And I seek not mine own glory: one there is, the Seeker and Judge. [Rev 2:23]

The Logos-Word is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world might be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the LOGOS-WORD that I have spoken, THAT ONE shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-16].

The Logos-Word which the man Yeshua speaks is not his own:

John 14:24
24. He that loves me not, keeps not my sayings: and the Logos-Word which you hear is not of me, but of the Father who sent me.

The Father judges no one, (John 5:22).
The man Yeshua judges no one, (John 8:15, John 12:47-48).
The Father has committed all judgment unto the Son, (John 5:22).
The man Yeshua does not testify concerning himself, (John 5:31).
The man Yeshua testifies concerning the Father and the Son.
The Son is therefore the only Judge.

The Father is not the Judge.
The man Yeshua is not the Judge.
The Logos-Word that Yeshua spoke is the Judge.
The man Yeshua therefore cannot be the Logos-Word.
The Logos-Word is the only begotten Elohim-Son of Elohim, (John 1:18).
The Testimony of Yeshua is never going to pass away, (Mt 24:35, Mk 13:31, Lk 21:33).
(Condensed from "The Logos-Word" Post#2)

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

1. God not only created the world ex nihilo but can (and at times does) intervene unilaterally in earthly affairs.
2. God chose to create mankind with incompatibilistic (libertarian) freedom—freedom over which He cannot exercise total control.
3. God so values freedom—the moral integrity of free creatures and a world in which such integrity is possible—that He does not normally override such freedom, even if He sees that it is producing undesirable results.
4. God always desires the highest good, both individually and corporately, and thus is affected by what happens in our lives.
5. God does not possess exhaustive foreknowledge of exactly how we will utilize our freedom, although He may at times be able to predict with great accuracy the choices we will freely make.
(Src: David Basinger in Pinnock’s The Openness of God)

Nevertheless, especially within the confines of TOL, one will find differences of opinion on these basic tenets. For example, there are open theists who will disagree that all of the future is unknowable to God, or that God will never override the libertarian free will of His creatures.

Then, there is this:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...o-you-think-of-it/page4&p=3415136#post3415136

AMR

AMR...

Publically, I have been a jerk towards you. This stops now! I welcome your use of scripture, alone, intertwined with your well studied understanding... to sharpen my current understanding through challenge. You are welcome on my thread in Open Theism...

You can quote me on this! I count you a concerned brother in Christ and recognize that I am proposing things that are outside of Calvinism and Open Theology. My motive is UNE, towards the TRI-UNE.

1 Cor. 1:13

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

[MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION] ... Until you acknowledge Jesus as your Lord, God and Luke 2:11 + Isaiah 43:11

You will remain on ignore..

May Christ Compel you!

 

[daqq]

@daqq ... Until you acknowledge Jesus as your Lord, God and Luke 2:11 + Isaiah 43:11

You will remain on ignore..

May Christ Compel you!

I have already acknowledged those things, but simply not in the same way that you word them, (because you neither understand nor accept what the scripture says and therefore you do not even understand when I do acknowledge such things). However, aside from that, you once again prominently display your arrogance in denying the Testimony of Messiah quoted in my previous post which is full of that Logos whom you claim to know and worship. How can you claim that the Logos-Word is God Almighty and reject those portions of the Word whom you claim is God Almighty when those portions do not agree with your privately held dogmas? You are a walking contradiction not knowing what you worship.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I have already acknowledged those things, but simply not in the same way that you word them, (because you neither understand nor accept what the scripture says and therefore you do not even understand when I do acknowledge such things). However, aside from that, you once again prominently display your arrogance in denying the Testimony of Messiah quoted in my previous post which is full of that Logos whom you claim to know and worship. How can you claim that the Logos-Word is God Almighty and reject those portions of the Word whom you claim is God Almighty when those portions do not agree with your privately held dogmas? You are a walking contradiction not knowing what you worship.

Daqq

Do you profess that Jesus is God and came in Flesh, per Luke 2:11 ... Isaiah 43:11 ... and... Isaiah 9:6 ... collaborated through 1 Tim. 3:16 ... that Hebrews 2:14 ... per 1 Cor. 15:54f, 56f ... thus John 3:16f to ensure Eph. 2:8f ...

Because The Wages of SIN is Death, but the Gift of God is Eternal life and Certain in the Father (Isaiah 9:6 and Isaiah 45:5)... Son... (John 1:1) ... and indwelling Holy Spirit (Very Soul of God) ... Romans 8:9 and Php. 1:13 ... Understanding that the 3 testify of the (Dt. 6:4 and Rev. 4:2)?

Do you confess that God came in the flesh at birth ... per (Luke 2:21 and Matthew 1:18)?

Do you profess that salvation is free to us by Jesus the Messiah?

 

[Lon]

If all that you say of yourself is true then here is your chance to change your stance against the Testimony of Messiah whom you claim to know and love. This is again from the now closed thread where you already denied the Testimony of Messiah, (linked at the bottom of the post).

Again, the plain simple flow of systematic logic straight from the Testimony of Yeshua:

For a moment, let's see :think:

The words of Yeshua are Spirit:

John 6:62-63
62 What then if you should behold the Son of Man ascending up to where he was before?
63 It is the Spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life.

Again, the plain simple flow of systematic logic straight from the Testimony of Yeshua

Yep, one equals the other, good drawn conclusion :up:

The Father judges no one but has committed all judgment to the Son:

John 5:22
22. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:

The man Yeshua does not testify of himself and therefore does not claim to be Elohim:

Again, the plain simple flow of systematic logic straight from the Testimony of Yeshua

:nono: "Man" isn't a drawn conclusion. "Elohim" isn't part of the passage so is also an illogical conclusion.

Again, the plain simple flow of systematic logic straight from the Testimony of Yeshua

]

John 5:31
31 If I testify of myself, my testimony is not true

.

Again, the plain simple flow of systematic logic straight from the Testimony of Yeshua

:nono: Why, for instance, if I said I was the king of England, would my testimony not count? :think: Nor does it say 'man' nor does it say 'Elohim.'

John 8:15
15. You judge after the flesh: I judge no one.

The man Yeshua emphatically states that he himself judges no one:

He is judge. He hasn't judged 1) according to the flesh 2 nor at the bema seat yet. John 8:15-17

There is only one who judges and he is the Seeker and the Judge:

:think: John 8:16
You are actually correct, but it supports the tri- -une view, not your own. Your logic is okay here, but it stops before moving forward.

John 8:50
50. And I seek not mine own glory: one there is, the Seeker and Judge. [Rev 2:23]

The Logos-Word is the Seeker and the Judge:

Revelation 2:23 does say that, but I'm not sure you need it. Go back to John 8:16 with this verse. It actually demands a triune view. ]

Again, the plain simple flow of systematic logic

]

John 12:47-48

47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world might be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the LOGOS-WORD that I have spoken, THAT ONE shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-16].

In this case, word isn't

The Logos-Word which the man Yeshua speaks is not his own:[/QUOTE]]

Again, the plain simple flow of systematic logic

:nono: Read it again. It says the opposite of your drawn conclusion so isn't logical at all.

]

Again, the plain simple flow of systematic logic

]

John 14:24

24. He that loves me not, keeps not my sayings: and the Logos-Word which you hear is not of me, but of the Father who sent me.

You are jumping around, thus have lost the flow of thought of not just John 5, but everything: rewriting scriptures to say what you say, instead of believing or being molded by what He says. John 5:18, for examples, says He is equal with God.

The Father judges no one, (John 5:22).
The man Yeshua judges no one, (John 8:15, John 12:47-48).

See John 3:18-21 Those are condemned already but rather, Jesus came to save, not to condemn, yet they are condemned. As such, this isn't correcting you on this portion, but rather giving you food for thought from the same book.

The Father has committed all judgment unto the Son, (John 5:22).
The man Yeshua does not testify concerning himself, (John 5:31).
The man Yeshua testifies concerning the Father and the Son.
The Son is therefore the only Judge.

The Father is not the Judge.
The man Yeshua is not the Judge.
The Logos-Word that Yeshua spoke is the Judge.
The man Yeshua therefore cannot be the Logos-Word.

Again, the plain simple flow of systematic logic

I yet believe you haven't shown the necessity of logos as a being when simply 'my words' makes the better sense. There is no logical necessity in your conclusion therefore the evidence and drawn conclusion are strained. Check also your facts about Yashua as judge. He says He doesn't judge and in my opion 'after the flesh' may easily be the drawn conclusion because He has just spoken about it. "Judge" then is a verb and does not dismiss that He will judge in the future. Point: Your conclusion is nowise demanded or even supported from the text.

The Logos-Word is the only begotten Elohim-Son of Elohim, (John 1:18).
The Testimony of Yeshua is never going to pass away, (Mt 24:35, Mk 13:31, Lk 21:33).
(Condensed from "The Logos-Word" Post#2)

John 1:14 undoes your conclusion.

Again, the plain simple flow of systematic logic straight from the Testimony of Yeshua

:nono: Not plain.
:nono: Didn't flow, you jumped around (so I had to as well or redress with a post that didn't line-item yours).
:nono: Wasn't systematic in logic
:nono: Not from Yeshua as much as from Daqq's brain, however functional it works. -Lon

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I'm off for the day... but... the contributions that are not mine to this OP are each valuable.

Lon...

For a moment, let's see :think:

# You blew my mind just then! I'll have to read that 10 times tomorrow! Beautiful!

[MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION] ... Lon isn't wrong in the slightest bit, within his post... and... his articulation and peace making tends to be much better than mine!

In memory of Meshak... (Rest her dead, spiritual bones) - Good Day, ToL

 

[daqq]

"Man" isn't a drawn conclusion. "Elohim" isn't part of the passage so is also an illogical conclusion.

Yes, Elohim is rendered in various forms of Theos all over the Septuagint which most all of the Apostolic writers of the NT quote from. Do some actual study to show yourself approved.

Why, for instance, if I said I was the king of England, would my testimony not count? :think: Nor does it say 'man' nor does it say 'Elohim.'

You now say that the Master Teacher had no humanity whatsoever?

He is judge. He hasn't judged 1) according to the flesh 2 nor at the bema seat yet. John 8:15-17

John 8:15
15. You judge after the flesh: I judge no one.

John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world might be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the LOGOS-WORD that I have spoken, THAT ONE shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-16].

And the Testimony of the Master is never going to pass away, (Mt 24:35, Mk 13:31, Lk 21:33).

The Logos-Word which the man Yeshua speaks is not his own:

Read it again. It says the opposite of your drawn conclusion so isn't logical at all.

John 14:24
24. He that loves me not, keeps not my sayings: and the Logos-Word which you hear is not of me, but of the Father who sent me.

John 14:24 KJV
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 14:24 ASV
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

John 14:24 YLT
24 he who is not loving me, my words doth not keep; and the word that ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

John 14:24 NIV
24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

And the same goes for these words I quote and you reject: they are not my own.

The rest of your post is nothing more than your privately held opinion.

 

[daqq]

Beautiful! @daqq ... Lon isn't wrong in the slightest bit, within his post... and... his articulation and peace making tends to be much better than mine!

Of course Lon is not wrong according to YOU because that is nothing more than your OPINION; and he, like you, rejects the Logos-Word which I posted. None of that Logos-Word is difficult to follow or understand because each statement is clear and emphatic; and none of it will ever be changing to suit you or anyone else because the Testimony of the Master is never going to pass away. That Testimony you reject is my Rock. :chuckle:

 

[Lon]

Yes, Elohim is rendered in various forms of Theos all over the Septuagint which most all of the Apostolic writers of the NT quote from. Do some actual study to show yourself approved.

You first, show me:

Spoiler

Joh 5:16
　 Καὶ διὰ τοῦτο ἐδίωκον τὸν ᾿Ιησοῦν οἱ ᾿Ιουδαῖοι καὶ ἐζήτουν αὐτὸν ἀποκτεῖναι, ὅτι ταῦτα ἐποίει ἐν σαββάτῳ.　
Joh 5:17
　 ὁ δὲ ᾿Ιησοῦς ἀπεκρίνατο αὐτοῖς· ὁ πατήρ μου ἕως ἄρτι ἐργάζεται, κἀγὼ ἐργάζομαι.　
Jesus Is Equal with God
Joh 5:18
　 διὰ τοῦτο οὖν μᾶλλον ἐζήτουν αὐτὸν οἱ ᾿Ιουδαῖοι ἀποκτεῖναι, ὅτι οὐ μόνον ἔλυε τὸ σάββατον, ἀλλὰ καὶ πατέρα ἴδιον ἔλεγε τὸν Θεόν, ἴσον ἑαυτὸν ποιῶν τῷ Θεῷ.　
The Authority of the Son
Joh 5:19
　 ᾿Απεκρίνατο οὖν ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐ δύναται ὁ υἱὸς ποιεῖν ἀφ᾿ ἑαυτοῦ οὐδὲν, ἐὰν μή τι βλέπῃ τὸν πατέρα ποιοῦντα· ἃ γὰρ ἂν ἐκεῖνος ποιῇ, ταῦτα καὶ ὁ υἱὸς ὁμοίως ποιεῖ.　
Joh 5:20
　 ὁ γὰρ πατὴρ φιλεῖ τὸν υἱὸν καὶ πάντα δείκνυσιν αὐτῷ ἃ αὐτὸς ποιεῖ, καὶ μείζονα τούτων δείξει αὐτῷ ἔργα, ἵνα ὑμεῖς θαυμάζητε.　
Joh 5:21
　 ὥσπερ γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ ἐγείρει τοὺς νεκροὺς καὶ ζῳοποιεῖ, οὕτω καὶ ὁ υἱὸς οὓς θέλει ζῳοποιεῖ.　
Joh 5:22
　 οὐδὲ γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ κρίνει οὐδένα, ἀλλὰ τὴν κρίσιν πᾶσαν δέδωκε τῷ υἱῷ,　
Joh 5:23
　 ἵνα πάντες τιμῶσι τὸν υἱὸν καθὼς τιμῶσι τὸν πατέρα. ὁ μὴ τιμῶν τὸν υἱὸν οὐ τιμᾷ τὸν πατέρα τὸν πέμψαντα αὐτόν.　
Joh 5:24
　 ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ὁ τὸν λόγον μου ἀκούων καὶ πιστεύων τῷ πέμψαντί με ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον, καὶ εἰς κρίσιν οὐκ ἔρχεται, ἀλλὰ μεταβέβηκεν ἐκ τοῦ θανάτου εἰς τὴν ζωήν.　
Joh 5:25
　 ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ἔρχεται ὥρα, καὶ νῦν ἐστιν, ὅτε οἱ νεκροὶ ἀκούσουσονται τῆς φωνῆς τοῦ Υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ, καὶ οἱ ἀκούσαντες ζήσονται.　
Joh 5:26
　 ὥσπερ γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ ἔχει ζωὴν ἐν ἑαυτῷ, οὕτως ἔδωκε καὶ τῷ υἱῷ ζωὴν ἔχειν ἐν ἑαυτῷ·　
Joh 5:27
　 καὶ ἐξουσίαν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ κρίσιν ποιεῖν, ὅτι Υἱὸς ἀνθρώπου ἐστί.　
Joh 5:28
　 μὴ θαυμάζετε τοῦτο· ὅτι ἔρχεται ὥρα ἐν ᾗ πάντες οἱ ἐν τοῖς μνημείοις ἀκούσονται τῆς φωνῆς αὐτοῦ,　
Joh 5:29
　 καὶ ἐκπορεύσονται οἱ τὰ ἀγαθὰ ποιήσαντες εἰς ἀνάστασιν ζωῆς, οἱ δὲ τὰ φαῦλα πράξαντες εἰς ἀνάστασιν κρίσεως.　
Witnesses to Jesus
Joh 5:30
　 Οὐ δύναμαι ἐγὼ ποιεῖν ἀπ᾿ ἐμαυτοῦ οὐδέν. καθὼς ἀκούω κρίνω, καὶ ἡ κρίσις ἡ ἐμὴ δικαία ἐστίν· ὅτι οὐ ζητῶ τὸ θέλημα τὸ ἐμὸν, ἀλλὰ τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντός με πατρός.　
Joh 5:31
　 ᾿Εὰν ἐγὼ μαρτυρῶ περὶ ἐμαυτοῦ, ἡ μαρτυρία μου οὐκ ἔστιν ἀληθής·　

I saw theos Θεός in there. אֱלֹהִים. is a Hebrew word. It doesn't mean you randomly translate one for the other. Translators spend time rather than your willy-nilly arbitrary (the LXX is unidirectional, Hebrew to Greek not bidirectional - Greek to Hebrew)

You now say that the Master Teacher had no humanity whatsoever?

Nope. You don't read well: scripture nor me. I'm not going to play this game all day though. I've proven my points, unlike you.

John 8:15

15. You judge after the flesh: I judge no one[after the flesh].

"After the flesh" or "not at all." Doesn't say does it. :think: Because it doesn't say, you are left to assumption. If you build all of your theology off of mere assumptions, you are ever likely to get it wrong. Tri- -une don't. Know why? You should be triune, it is less arrogant and assumes other scriptures are clear enough that you are half wrong in your conclusions. Hence the above 'you don't read well.'

John 12:47-48

47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world might be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the LOGOS-WORD that I have spoken, THAT ONE shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-16].

Spoiler

And the Testimony of the Master is never going to pass away, (Mt 24:35, Mk 13:31, Lk 21:33).



John 14:24
24. He that loves me not, keeps not my sayings: and the Logos-Word which you hear is not of me, but of the Father who sent me.

John 14:24 KJV
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 14:24 ASV
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

John 14:24 YLT
24 he who is not loving me, my words doth not keep; and the word that ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

John 14:24 NIV
24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

And the same goes for these words I quote and you reject: they are not my own.

These? Some of them are yours. I only reject yours. Well that and the unorganized stacking of them to prove a postulation, rather than being formed by what it says.

The rest of your post is nothing more than your privately held opinion.

About you? :nono: They are public and not just mine. You want to teach so badly and nobody listens to you. Know why?

Because three fingers are pointing back at you. Whether my opinion or fact is another discussion: In a nutshell, I logically support my ideas from scripture and everyone can see them as well as why I hold to one thing or another. This isn't the case with you. You are ALMOST as bad as Squeeky. Okay, not really, that bad, but on that line. You read 'into' the text, not out of it.

You can have the last word. I wanted to show a difference here and I believe I've done so.

 

[meshak]

:
Isaiah 5:20

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

Lon says:

:
Because three fingers are pointing back at you. Whether my opinion or fact is another discussion: In a nutshell, I logically support my ideas from scripture and everyone can see them as well as why I hold to one thing or another. This isn't the case with you. You are ALMOST as bad as Squeeky. Okay, not really, that bad, but on that line. You read 'into' the text, not out of it.

He seems to be saying "I am scriptural and anyone who does not agree with me are not, even though Daqq is quoting with the scriptures too.

It is telling what kind of faith he has.

This is a good example of meaningless argument using the scripture.

just saying.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Lon says:





He seems to be saying "I am scriptural and anyone who does not agree with me are not, even though Daqq is quoting with the scriptures too.

It is telling what kind of faith he has.

This is a good example of meaningless argument using the scripture.

just saying.

No Scripture from the "God please help her Dead, Spiritual Bones", Meshak...

Merry Christmas!!!

Titus 1:10-11

10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.

- May You Listen to God and stop Resisting His Spirit and Scripture! May you see that Christ is your only Light, Salvation and Teacher! May you throw away your MISPLACED faith in the "BlindTower"

- Good Day "Logged in just for you"

; )

 

[Lon]

Lon ...seems to be saying "I am scriptural and anyone who does not agree with me are not, even though Daqq is quoting with the scriptures too.

Logic: "If A is true, and B is true, then C is true or likely true." Your problem: "Anyone" is not in the A or B therefore shouldn't be in your C (means you are 'logically' wrong). -Lon

It is telling what kind of faith he has.

Yes: Logical. Not built off of false ideas like "anybody." Another instance of your problem thinking (logic): "Daqq is quoting 'with' the scriptures too." You are equating 'quoting scripture' with being logical. Do you think Squeeky is logical?

This is a good example of meaningless argument using the scripture.

just saying.

Er, no it is not. You didn't use any scripture. You probably should have since 'anybody posting any scripture' is correct in your thinking. You aren't consistent, which reveals you aren't logical. As a matter of fact, I told Daqq where he was logical as well as where he wasn't. You don't read well. This too is illogical. Why post in a thread without reading and understanding it first? This also is illogical.

 

[meshak]

Hello Lon and EE.

Jesus loves you.

peace

 

[daqq]

You first, show me:

Spoiler

Joh 5:16
　 Καὶ διὰ τοῦτο ἐδίωκον τὸν ᾿Ιησοῦν οἱ ᾿Ιουδαῖοι καὶ ἐζήτουν αὐτὸν ἀποκτεῖναι, ὅτι ταῦτα ἐποίει ἐν σαββάτῳ.　
Joh 5:17
　 ὁ δὲ ᾿Ιησοῦς ἀπεκρίνατο αὐτοῖς· ὁ πατήρ μου ἕως ἄρτι ἐργάζεται, κἀγὼ ἐργάζομαι.　
Jesus Is Equal with God
Joh 5:18
　 διὰ τοῦτο οὖν μᾶλλον ἐζήτουν αὐτὸν οἱ ᾿Ιουδαῖοι ἀποκτεῖναι, ὅτι οὐ μόνον ἔλυε τὸ σάββατον, ἀλλὰ καὶ πατέρα ἴδιον ἔλεγε τὸν Θεόν, ἴσον ἑαυτὸν ποιῶν τῷ Θεῷ.　
The Authority of the Son
Joh 5:19
　 ᾿Απεκρίνατο οὖν ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐ δύναται ὁ υἱὸς ποιεῖν ἀφ᾿ ἑαυτοῦ οὐδὲν, ἐὰν μή τι βλέπῃ τὸν πατέρα ποιοῦντα· ἃ γὰρ ἂν ἐκεῖνος ποιῇ, ταῦτα καὶ ὁ υἱὸς ὁμοίως ποιεῖ.　
Joh 5:20
　 ὁ γὰρ πατὴρ φιλεῖ τὸν υἱὸν καὶ πάντα δείκνυσιν αὐτῷ ἃ αὐτὸς ποιεῖ, καὶ μείζονα τούτων δείξει αὐτῷ ἔργα, ἵνα ὑμεῖς θαυμάζητε.　
Joh 5:21
　 ὥσπερ γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ ἐγείρει τοὺς νεκροὺς καὶ ζῳοποιεῖ, οὕτω καὶ ὁ υἱὸς οὓς θέλει ζῳοποιεῖ.　
Joh 5:22
　 οὐδὲ γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ κρίνει οὐδένα, ἀλλὰ τὴν κρίσιν πᾶσαν δέδωκε τῷ υἱῷ,　
Joh 5:23
　 ἵνα πάντες τιμῶσι τὸν υἱὸν καθὼς τιμῶσι τὸν πατέρα. ὁ μὴ τιμῶν τὸν υἱὸν οὐ τιμᾷ τὸν πατέρα τὸν πέμψαντα αὐτόν.　
Joh 5:24
　 ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ὁ τὸν λόγον μου ἀκούων καὶ πιστεύων τῷ πέμψαντί με ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον, καὶ εἰς κρίσιν οὐκ ἔρχεται, ἀλλὰ μεταβέβηκεν ἐκ τοῦ θανάτου εἰς τὴν ζωήν.　
Joh 5:25
　 ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ἔρχεται ὥρα, καὶ νῦν ἐστιν, ὅτε οἱ νεκροὶ ἀκούσουσονται τῆς φωνῆς τοῦ Υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ, καὶ οἱ ἀκούσαντες ζήσονται.　
Joh 5:26
　 ὥσπερ γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ ἔχει ζωὴν ἐν ἑαυτῷ, οὕτως ἔδωκε καὶ τῷ υἱῷ ζωὴν ἔχειν ἐν ἑαυτῷ·　
Joh 5:27
　 καὶ ἐξουσίαν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ κρίσιν ποιεῖν, ὅτι Υἱὸς ἀνθρώπου ἐστί.　
Joh 5:28
　 μὴ θαυμάζετε τοῦτο· ὅτι ἔρχεται ὥρα ἐν ᾗ πάντες οἱ ἐν τοῖς μνημείοις ἀκούσονται τῆς φωνῆς αὐτοῦ,　
Joh 5:29
　 καὶ ἐκπορεύσονται οἱ τὰ ἀγαθὰ ποιήσαντες εἰς ἀνάστασιν ζωῆς, οἱ δὲ τὰ φαῦλα πράξαντες εἰς ἀνάστασιν κρίσεως.　
Witnesses to Jesus
Joh 5:30
　 Οὐ δύναμαι ἐγὼ ποιεῖν ἀπ᾿ ἐμαυτοῦ οὐδέν. καθὼς ἀκούω κρίνω, καὶ ἡ κρίσις ἡ ἐμὴ δικαία ἐστίν· ὅτι οὐ ζητῶ τὸ θέλημα τὸ ἐμὸν, ἀλλὰ τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντός με πατρός.　
Joh 5:31
　 ᾿Εὰν ἐγὼ μαρτυρῶ περὶ ἐμαυτοῦ, ἡ μαρτυρία μου οὐκ ἔστιν ἀληθής·　

I saw theos Θεός in there. אֱלֹהִים. is a Hebrew word. It doesn't mean you randomly translate one for the other. Translators spend time rather than your willy-nilly arbitrary (the LXX is unidirectional, Hebrew to Greek not bidirectional - Greek to Hebrew)


Nope. You don't read well: scripture nor me. I'm not going to play this game all day though. I've proven my points, unlike you.




"After the flesh" or "not at all." Doesn't say does it. :think: Because it doesn't say, you are left to assumption. If you build all of your theology off of mere assumptions, you are ever likely to get it wrong. Tri- -une don't. Know why? You should be triune, it is less arrogant and assumes other scriptures are clear enough that you are half wrong in your conclusions. Hence the above 'you don't read well.'



These? Some of them are yours. I only reject yours. Well that and the unorganized stacking of them to prove a postulation, rather than being formed by what it says.


About you? :nono: They are public and not just mine. You want to teach so badly and nobody listens to you. Know why?

Because three fingers are pointing back at you. Whether my opinion or fact is another discussion: In a nutshell, I logically support my ideas from scripture and everyone can see them as well as why I hold to one thing or another. This isn't the case with you. You are ALMOST as bad as Squeeky. Okay, not really, that bad, but on that line. You read 'into' the text, not out of it.

You can have the last word. I wanted to show a difference here and I believe I've done so.

Joh 5:18
　 διὰ τοῦτο οὖν μᾶλλον ἐζήτουν αὐτὸν οἱ ᾿Ιουδαῖοι ἀποκτεῖναι, ὅτι οὐ μόνον ἔλυε τὸ σάββατον, ἀλλὰ καὶ πατέρα ἴδιον ἔλεγε τὸν Θεόν, ἴσον ἑαυτὸν ποιῶν τῷ Θεῷ.　

Lol, now you are right back to τὸν Θεόν and John 1:1 again. Are you now saying that in the beginning there was no Elohim? It can only be Theos according to you? You are spinning your hot-wheels like a kid playing cars in a sandbox.