Originally posted by Chileice
CheeseMan said:
Before I start, let me state I have no answer to this...only posing the question to see what the great minds here think.
Here is a scenario about a believer named Bob:
Bob was not raised in a church-going family, and knew little about Christianity until the age of 25 when he became a believer. At this time he loved the Lord with all his heart for the next 10 years. He was daily in prayer and the Word, and sincerely spent his time seeking the Lord's will for his life. The fruit of Bob's belief was evident. He was a believer, and his heart was with the Lord as much as any human's heart can be.
At age 35 Bob's father Larry died. Larry was an unbeliever. Bob didn't take the idea of his father going to hell very well, struggled for a week with his faith, and eventually "fell away" from the Lord for a month.
Bob died at 35 with his heart away from the Lord.
so........
The first question is: Can you lose salvation?
If so, then there must be a standard of falling away (or a degree). If there is a standard for falling away then there is no point in Jesus.
You might say Bob's heart wasn't with Jesus. What about the people who have a bad day and temporarily fall away? What about the momentary "falling-away(s)" we all have because we are imperfect? No human is perfect, so thus, no human can have perfect faith. No one is 100%, and no believer is at 0%.
Given this, what is the standard for losing salvation. It cannot be perfect faith and odebience in Christ. And it can't be a percentage. No human is 100% or 0%.
If John was 79% faithful and Bob was 78%, and we claim one was more faithful than another, we have created a scale other than Christ.
If there becomes a certain degree in which we lose salvation then there is a standard other than Christ.
Any teaching that diminishes the work of Jesus Christ on the cross is in error. Bob is saved. If Peter would have died of a heart attack while he was denying Christ, I believe he would be in heaven. Hebrews 7.25 is an amazing verse. God saves us completely and forever. The word in greek means both completely and forever. Titus 3, Ephesians 2, I John 5, Romans 8, Matthew 11. We are saved by the faith we have in the finished work of Jesus. His death on the cross was the gift to all humanity. Our acceptance of that gift is our guarantee of life eternal.
Now, what rewards will Bob have? Read I Cor. 3 and decide for yourself. I expect a bunch of his life work will be toast and that will be a loss he suffers in eternity. But eternally cast away from Christ?... NO WAY!! John 6.37 is quite clear about it. Either Jesus is the Son of God with the power to save us forever or an evil minion of the devil trying to ruin our lives by holding us ever in suspense as to the fate of our salvation putting it out there one minute and snatching it back the next.
If that were the case, better that we should all be Zoroastrians trying to make our good deeds outweigh our bad ones and hoping the balances would tip in Ahura Mazda's favour. But I believe Jesus brought the grace to Zoroastrians longed for, the Jews longed for, the grace we all desire and need so badly. AMAZING GRACE, how sweet the sound. If I go deaf or dumb or blind or even crazy... I am still His. It is not based on works of righteousness I have done or will ever do, but on His love.
Do I do good works? Yes I do. And I enjoy doing them out of my love for the Saviour, not out of painful duty. Do I sin? Sure do! More than I want to, but not as much as before. Does it hurt me? Yes, sin has consequences here in this life and in the rewards of the afterlife. My sin is often caused not by lack of faith in the work of Jesus but by my own stupidity, or by my lack of courage or lack of self-discipline. But thankfully, Jesus chose a bunch of undisciplined, weak-willed selfish people to be his disciples... and he still does today. He came to call sinners... not self-righteous religionists.
"Grace grace, God's grace;
Grace that will pardon and cleanse within;
Grace grace, God's grace;
Grace that is greater than all our sin!"
