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serpentdove

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Whom do you want to be like? Abraham, :rapture: Lot :rapture: or Lot's Wife? :burnlib: Phil 2:12

At daybreak the angels urged Lot on: “Get up! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away in the punishment of the city.” But he hesitated. Because of the LORD’s compassion for him, the men grabbed his hand, his wife’s hand, and the hands of his two daughters. Then they brought him out and left him outside the city.

As soon as the angels got them outside, one of them said, “Run for your lives! Don’t look back and don’t stop anywhere on the plain! Run to the mountains, or you will be swept away!”

But Lot said to them, “No, my lords —please. Your servant has indeed found favor in your sight, and you have shown me great kindness by saving my life. But I can’t run to the mountains; the disaster will overtake me, and I will die. Look, this town is close enough for me to run to. It is a small place. Please let me go there—it’s only a small place, isn’t it?—so that I can survive.”

And he said to him, “All right, I’ll grant your request about this matter too and will not demolish the town you mentioned. Hurry up! Run there, for I cannot do anything until you get there.” Therefore the name of the city is Zoar.

The sun had risen over the land when Lot reached Zoar. Then out of the sky the LORD rained burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah from the LORD. He demolished these cities, the entire plain, all the inhabitants of the cities, and whatever grew on the ground. But his wife looked back and became a pillar of salt (Ge 19:15–26).
 

serpentdove

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I like salty foods

...And the world? :think: Eph 2:2-3, Lk 14:26

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CherubRam

New member
Here is the correct translation.

Luke 14:26
26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not love less his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
 

Ben Masada

New member
Whom do you want to be like? Abraham, :rapture: Lot :rapture: or Lot's Wife? :burnlib: Phil 2:12

At daybreak the angels urged Lot on: “Get up! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away in the punishment of the city.” But he hesitated. Because of the LORD’s compassion for him, the men grabbed his hand, his wife’s hand, and the hands of his two daughters. Then they brought him out and left him outside the city.

As soon as the angels got them outside, one of them said, “Run for your lives! Don’t look back and don’t stop anywhere on the plain! Run to the mountains, or you will be swept away!”

But Lot said to them, “No, my lords —please. Your servant has indeed found favor in your sight, and you have shown me great kindness by saving my life. But I can’t run to the mountains; the disaster will overtake me, and I will die. Look, this town is close enough for me to run to. It is a small place. Please let me go there—it’s only a small place, isn’t it?—so that I can survive.”

And he said to him, “All right, I’ll grant your request about this matter too and will not demolish the town you mentioned. Hurry up! Run there, for I cannot do anything until you get there.” Therefore the name of the city is Zoar.

The sun had risen over the land when Lot reached Zoar. Then out of the sky the LORD rained burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah from the LORD. He demolished these cities, the entire plain, all the inhabitants of the cities, and whatever grew on the ground. But his wife looked back and became a pillar of salt (Ge 19:15–26).

The Establishment of the Minyan

Ten Jewish men in Sodom would have saved the city from destruction. That's what a Minyan is, a group of ten Jewish men.

And the Lord appeared to Abraham and reported to him that Sodom and Gomorrah were doomed for destruction and the following dialogue took place:

Abraham: Would you destroy the righteous with the wicked? Assuming there were 50 righteous in the city, would you still destroy the city?

HaShem: No, I would spare the place for the 50 righteous ones.

Abraham: What about 45, would you proceed with the destruction?

HaShem: No, for 45 I would save the city.

Abraham: Okay, 40 righteous, would you stop with the plan to destroy the city?

HaShem: Yes, I would.

Abraham: Now, if you don't mind me, 30 righteous, would the city be spared?

HaShem: Yes, I would forgive the city if I found 30 righteous in there.

Abraham: If I be so bold, what about 20? Would you still destroy the city?

HaShem: No, I wouldn't.

Abraham: Be not my Lord angry if I speak only this last time. Perhaps 10, only 10 righteous, would the Lord spare the city?

HaShem: If I find 10 righteous in the city, the city is saved. And the Jewish Minyan had been established. (Genesis 18:23-32)

What is by definition the righteous in the context of this dialogue between HaShem and Abraham, sinless people? No, thousands of children went up in the smoke and they were all sinless as they were not subject to the Law. Righteous in this text is by definition the righteous People whether were they to be sinless or not. The bottom line is that if there was a Minyan of 10 adult Jews in Sodom and Gomorrah those cities would not have been destroyed.

Jesus must have read the above dialogue and concluded that "Salvation really comes from the Jews." (John 4:22) Then, Prophet Jeremiah declared that as long as Israel remains as a People before the Lord forever, the natural laws will never cease functioning properly. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)
 

Ben Masada

New member
[FONT=&]Here is the correct translation.[/FONT]

[FONT=&]Luke 14:26 [/FONT]
[FONT=&]26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not love less his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. [/FONT]

In that case, Jesus could have had no disciples at all because, naturally, according to as man was created, no one could love Jesus or any thing else more than his or her own life. Let's be real and stop deluding our own selves!
 

CherubRam

New member
In that case, Jesus could have had no disciples at all because, naturally, according to as man was created, no one could love Jesus or any thing else more than his or her own life. Let's be real and stop deluding our own selves!

The verse is about being a coward: Cowardice is a trait wherein fear and excess self-concern override doing or saying what is right, good, and of help to others or oneself in a time of need—it is the opposite of courage. As a label, "cowardice" indicates a failure of character in the face of a challenge.
 

Ben Masada

New member
The verse is about being a coward: Cowardice is a trait wherein fear and excess self-concern override doing or saying what is right, good, and of help to others or oneself in a time of need—it is the opposite of courage. As a label, "cowardice" indicates a failure of character in the face of a challenge.

No, the text is about loving any thing or any one, even one's life more than Jesus. This statement goes against the nature of being human. No one can love any thing or any one more than him or herself if we are to behave according to nature.
 

CherubRam

New member
No, the text is about loving any thing or any one, even one's life more than Jesus. This statement goes against the nature of being human. No one can love any thing or any one more than him or herself if we are to behave according to nature.

A person who cares more about what family, friends, or a stranger thinks, or may do, is a coward. The love of Christ does not abide in that person. The subject is about love and courage.


Here is the correct translation.

Luke 14:26
26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not love less his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
 
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