ECT Baptised babies can still be killed, or they can still burn in hell for their sins.

[Capricorn]

According to Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20 it is clear that NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS at all, but everyone is guilty and culpable and liable to be killed for their sins against God or sins against their fellow humans: Ezekiel 18:4, Luke 10:28.

This includes baptised children who have no exemption from the rule described in Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that “baptised children will be saved due to their (alleged) innocence”.

Therefore, baptised children would still burn in hell, since the Bible has made it clear that NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS at all: Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20.

True or false?


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[iamaberean]

According to Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20 it is clear that NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS at all, but everyone is guilty and culpable and liable to be killed for their sins against God or sins against their fellow humans: Ezekiel 18:4, Luke 10:28.

This includes baptised children who have no exemption from the rule described in Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that “baptised children will be saved due to their (alleged) innocence”.

Therefore, baptised children would still burn in hell, since the Bible has made it clear that NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS at all: Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20.

True or false?


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1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

FALSE!

In fact, if an infant dies, baptized or not, he will not burn in hell.

If you think that any of them can then you do not worship the same God that I do because He is a God of love and grace and would never send an innocent child to hell.

 

[Capricorn]

FALSE!

In fact, if an infant dies, baptized or not, he will burn in hell.

If you think that any of them can then you do not worship the same God that I do because he is a God of love and grace and would never send an innocent child to hell.

NO ONE IS INNOCENT (Romans 3:10, 23, Ecclesiastes 7:20), according to Holy Scripture, which is the Word of God: John 1:1-3, Revelation 19:13.

However, you have simply contradicted yourself; since the first paragraph quoted is in contradiction with the second.


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[Capricorn]

1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

However, you have clearly missed the point; since 1 Co 7:14 does nothing to change the fact that NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS NOR SANCTIFIED (Romans 3:10, 23, Ecclesiastes 7:20) according to Holy Scripture which is the Word of God: John 1:1-3, Revelation 19:13.

Neither, the child nor its parents are ‘sanctified’ according to Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20.

For if the parents are not sanctified then the child is not sanctified, either: Romans 3:10, 23, Ecclesiastes 7:20.


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[Capricorn]

FALSE!

In fact, if an infant dies, baptized or not, he will not burn in hell.

If you think that any of them can then you do not worship the same God that I do because He is a God of love and grace and would never send an innocent child to hell.

Correction: There is no contradiction whatsoever between the first and second paragraph; but I stand by what I have said regarding Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20; that all babies will burn in Hell, whether baptised or not, since it is supported by the above Scripture, but there is no Scripture to the contrary.


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[Jerry Shugart]

NO ONE IS INNOCENT (Romans 3:10, 23, Ecclesiastes 7:20), according to Holy Scripture, which is the Word of God: John 1:1-3, Revelation 19:13.

What has an infant done that makes him guilty of anything and therefore not innocent?

Here is the first verse which you cited in its "context":

"No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one" (Ro.3:9-10).​

A sin is defined as "lawlessness" so what law has an infant transgressed?

 

[Capricorn]

Whether innocent or not, the infants would still die since they cannot survive by themselves if all the adults are killed for their sins.


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[Jerry Shugart]

Whether innocent or not, the infants would still die since they cannot survive by themselves if all the adults are killed for their sins.

The LORD is not now putting all sinners to death so your argument makes no sense.

So do you still argue that babies can go to hell? In other words, are you saying that God will send innocent babies to hell?

 

[ok doser]

FALSE!

In fact, if an infant dies, baptized or not, he will not burn in hell.

If you think that any of them can then you do not worship the same God that I do because He is a God of love and grace and would never send an innocent child to hell.

ok, not an infant

a toddler?

a three year old?

five? seven? eleven?

at what age does a child cease to be innocent?

 

[Capricorn]

They won’t go to hell, but they would still die physically if most of the adults are killed.

Matthew 7:13-14, 22:14 tells us that MOST people aren’t expected to survive the Great Judgment.

Also, Romans 9:22 tells us that the vessels of wrath are entire nations, which can still be destroyed in this Age of the New Covenant. This means that MOST of the adults in those countries would be killed during the Tribulation. Thus, the children of those nations would also die if MOST of the adults are killed.


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[Jerry Shugart]

In the title of this thread that you started you said that baptized babies can go to hell for their sins.

Do you now admit that babies do not sin and they will not go to hell, baptized or not?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

at what age does a child cease to be innocent?

A person ceases from being innocent when he sins.

 

[ok doser]

A person ceases from being innocent when he sins.

can a toddler sin?

a five year old?

a ten year old?

 

[Capricorn]

In the title of this thread that you started you said that baptized babies can go to hell for their sins.

Do you now admit that babies do not sin and they will not go to hell, baptized or not?

No, I don’t admit anything because the Scripture has made it clear that ALL PEOPLE HAVE SINNED, which includes babies: Romans 3:10, 23, Ecclesiastes 7:20.

At face value, this is what we must infer. Babies cannot be innocent anymore than adults; since NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS according to Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20.


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[Jerry Shugart]

No, I don’t admit anything because the Scripture has made it clear that ALL PEOPLE HAVE SINNED, which includes babies: Romans 3:10, 23, Ecclesiastes 7:20.

At face value, this is what we must infer. Babies cannot be innocent anymore than adults; since NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS according to Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20.

According to the Scriptures the Lord Jesus was made just like His brethren in all things (Heb.2:17) and He was not unrighteous so no one emerges from the womb unrighteous.

 

[binyamin7]

But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. -2 Samuel 12:23

In the passage above King David was referring to a young child that was born out of an affair he had. David fasted in hopes to keep the child alive but after the child already died David said “I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me”. So he is saying that the child won’t return to earth, but David will “go to him” in heaven when he dies. That looks like a pretty conclusive Scripture saying that the unborn and young children who die will be with the Lord.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

can a toddler sin?

a five year old?

a ten year old?

As soon as anyone has a knowledge of the law written in his heart of which the conscience bears witness then that person can sin.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

In the passage above King David was referring to a young child that was born out of an affair he had. David fasted in hopes to keep the child alive but after the child already died David said “I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me”. So he is saying that the child won’t return to earth, but David will “go to him” in heaven when he dies. That looks like a pretty conclusive Scripture saying that the unborn and young children who die will be with the Lord.

Right!

 

[Capricorn]

According to the Scriptures the Lord Jesus was made just like His brethren in all things (Heb.2:17) and He was not unrighteous so no one emerges from the womb unrighteous.

That looks like a pretty conclusive Scripture saying that the unborn and young children who die will be with the Lord.

Nevertheless, I think you have both missed the point.

Assuming that the unborn and young children would still go to heaven it doesn’t change the fact that they have been physically killed along with most of the adults due to the destruction of entire nations in the Age of the new covenant: Romans 9:22 and Matthew 7:13, 14, 22:14.

Children who are too young to have sinned may well go to heaven, but such children would never be able to procreate the future generations of the respective countries concerned; since they have been physically killed and cannot make any contribution to the genetic pool.

Consequently, the fact that those children can still go to heaven does nothing to prevent the occurrence of genocide in the long term, nor prevent the destruction of entire countries in the Great Tribulation: Romans 9:22, Matthew 7:13, 14, 22:14.




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