Are punishments in the new covenant greater or less? Is there punishment at all?

[Jacob]

The new covenant has come to be, about 2000 years ago, in Jesus Christ. I believe it is true that not everyone is a part of the new covenant, and though some may become a part of this covenant not all will. These statements are with the assumption that the new covenant does not include every living person, though it is possible to become a new covenant believer if you believe you currently are not.

That's the backdrop for my question. My question is if there are any punishments for sin in the new covenant. The old covenant law does have punishment for sin. It is good to live an upright and upstanding life. To live righteously in obedience to God. To be godly in all your behavior and conduct.

Is there punishment in the new covenant? And, if so, is it more severe than the old covenant law and punishment?

Obeying God's commands does bring rewards and blessing to individuals. If you are doing what is right does that mean you will never hurt or harm anyone, including those who break the law? If the requirement or request of God in Jesus Christ is greater, even salvation not being by works, than that of the old covenant law (or pertaining to the old covenant law), are the punishments greater or are they eliminated because we do what is right and just in the sight of God? And / Or, does the new covenant carry with it no requirement for performance or works or actions at all, because it is about salvation? Does the new covenant involve obedience or is it about the forgiveness of sinners only? See also Romans 6:23 NASB.

Is old covenant law still valid, including punishment, for the new covenant believer? We know without a doubt that new covenant believers should obey God or do obey God.

The Law is about love. And we learn about love of God and our neighbor from the Law and from the teaching of Jesus.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

The old covenant law does have punishment for sin. It is good to live an upright and upstanding life. To live righteously in obedience to God. To be godly in all your behavior and conduct.

Is there punishment in the new covenant? And, if so, is it more severe than the old covenant law and punishment?

Punishment by whom, civil government?

 

[Jacob]

Punishment by whom, civil government?

It is difficult to say I am subject to all authorities, but Biblically we are supposed to be.

This could be father son, church or synagogue, cities, counties, states, countries or nations, man's law and God's Law. Ultimately I am subject to God and Jesus.

(The Law, Punishment, Christianity, and Forgiveness)

Law: God's Law and Man's Law.

New Covenant Law

Love of God and your neighbor according to the old covenant law or the Law of Moses

Change of law

Romans 13:1 NASB - 1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

Ephesians 6:12 NASB - 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

 

[patrick jane]

The new covenant has come to be, about 2000 years ago, in Jesus Christ.
The Law is about love. And we learn about love of God and our neighbor from the Law and from the teaching of Jesus.

The law was given to teach us, to show that we need a Savior. The law was a teacher; schoolmaster. We are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:24-25 KJV -

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Punishment by whom, civil government?

It is difficult to say I am subject to all authorities, but Biblically we are supposed to be.

This could be father son, church or synagogue, cities, counties, states, countries or nations, man's law and God's Law. Ultimately I am subject to God and Jesus.

Then your OP was talking about punishment by civil authorities.

The New Testament deals primarily with eternal salvation. Jesus (God in the flesh) already set the universal moral code in the Old Testament. He did however make some changes in the NT when it came to things such as dietary laws (certain foods were no longer "unclean") and punishment of certain crimes (stoning adulterers, etc.) Just because He rescinded harsh punishment for certain criminal activities doesn't mean that He no longer believed that certain sins shouldn't be dealt with by civil government (murder, theft, sexual immorality, etc.).

 

[Jacob]

The law was given to teach us, to show that we need a Savior. The law was a teacher; schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:24-25 KJV -

Is the Law still a schoolmaster to bring people to Christ?

Was the Law a schoolmaster to bring people to Christ in Paul's day?

The Law has jurisdiction.

Was the Law a schoolmaster to the nation of Israel until faith came in Jesus, whether or not it was first proclaimed by Paul?

Jeremiah 31:31-34 NASB - 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Matthew 5:17-20 NASB - 17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Ephesians 2:8-22 NASB - 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands-- 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17 AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

Colossians 2:13-15 NASB - 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

Verses pertaining to or dealing with the new covenant

Hebrews 8:8, 13 NASB - 8 For finding fault with them, He says,"BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH; ... 13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

 

[Jacob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Punishment by whom, civil government?

Then your OP was talking about punishment by civil authorities.

The New Testament deals primarily with eternal salvation. Jesus (God in the flesh) already set the universal moral code in the Old Testament. He did however make some changes in the NT when it came to things such as dietary laws (certain foods were no longer "unclean") and punishment of certain crimes (stoning adulterers, etc.) Just because He rescinded harsh punishment for certain criminal activities doesn't mean that He no longer believed that certain sins shouldn't be dealt with by civil government (murder, theft, sexual immorality, etc.).

It is my understanding that new covenant believers are not under the Law. So there has to be a discussion of Law. God's Law, the nation of Israel, and the Gentiles (nations).

But if you are talking about the New Testament or the new covenant, I have this.

Hebrews 10:29 NASB - 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Also what comes to mind is...

Matthew 5:17-30 NASB - 17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. 21 "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' 22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. 23 "Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. 25 "Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 "Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent. 27 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY'; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

Etc...

and

Romans 13:1 NASB - 1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

Romans 13:1-14 NASB - 1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor. 8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. 11 Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. 12 The night is almost gone, and the day is near. Therefore let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.

So what are we to think when people talk about circumcision of the heart and the new covenant? We know a Jew is one who is one inwardly. But there ARE instructions for the new covenant believer. We are to obey God and Jesus. And in this we are to love everyone and be subject to the governing authorities.

If we are in the new covenant, whether Jew or Gentile, are we not subject to God's Law, the Law of Moses, or are we?

If the new covenant is different from, or not like, the old, in what way is this the case?

Does Israel have civil law? On the one hand there is no separation (talking about Israel here, to begin with) between God's Law and civil law. On the other hand civil law in other countries or nations is derived from God's Law or comes from God.