ECT Answering CRs question--

[Lazy afternoon]

Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
What do you believe you received when you first believed? Just askin'.

When LA first believed, it was after I had bought a new translation of the NT and to my surprise I could understand it, not because the writing was clearer.

I began to know that Jesus was real, so much so that I began to tell everyone that he was real.

Some laughed it off and others just thought about it.

When my sister and brother in law got wind of it, they came and asked me what I was looking for, which was a strange thing to say, and they went their way , but a few weeks or months later they invited me to hear an evangelist speaking in a full gospel church.

The Lord spoke to inside of me and when they gave an alter call I responded after the Lord appeared to me.

Now I can not say that I was born from above at that time or when I first believed, because when the Holy Spirit did enter me, healing of my lungs occurred and I was filled with such joy that the one who had laid hands on me and prayed over me (not knowing what he should do because he thought I was being difficult) were wondering of it as my tears had turned to such joy.

There you have it, but I could go further.

I do not accept that one is born again when first believing or that one is baptized into the body of Christ when first believing or even when spoken to by the Lord.

Why men fight so hard to maintain a position which precludes them from going on to something further, can only be because of the sense of fear of their flesh and spirit losing dominance over their life.

Men do not die very easily if they are not overcome by love to give it.

LA

 

[Cross Reference]

When LA first believed, it was after I had bought a new translation of the NT and to my surprise I could understand it, not because the writing was clearer.

I began to know that Jesus was real, so much so that I began to tell everyone that he was real.

Some laughed it off and others just thought about it.

When my sister and brother in law got wind of it, they came and asked me what I was looking for, which was a strange thing to say, and they went their way , but a few weeks or months later they invited me to hear an evangelist speaking in a full gospel church.

The Lord spoke to inside of me and when they gave an alter call I responded after the Lord appeared to me.

Now I can not say that I was born from above at that time or when I first believed, because when the Holy Spirit did enter me, healing of my lungs occurred and I was filled with such joy that the one who had laid hands on me and prayed over me (not knowing what he should do because he thought I was being difficult) were wondering of it as my tears had turned to such joy.

There you have it, but I could go further.

I do not accept that one is born again when first believing or that one is baptized into the body of Christ when first believing or even when spoken to by the Lord.

Why men fight so hard to maintain a position which precludes them from going on to something further, can only be because of the sense of fear of their flesh and spirit losing dominance over their life.

Men do not die very easily if they are not overcome by love to give it.

LA

I have no argument with any of that as sometimes being the way of the Lord.

I have in yellow that which I also believe, perhaps for the same reasons. I don't know.

So now what do you think still separates us because you come across differently than your testimony. I don't get it. What am I missing? Is there more?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I have no argument with any of that as sometimes being the way of the Lord.

I have in yellow that which I also believe, perhaps for the same reasons. I don't know.

So now what do you think still separates us because you come across differently than your testimony. I don't get it. What am I missing? Is there more?

There is much more.

If something separates us then lets hear it.

LA

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

When LA first believed, it was after I had bought a new translation of the NT and to my surprise I could understand it, not because the writing was clearer.

I began to know that Jesus was real, so much so that I began to tell everyone that he was real.

Some laughed it off and others just thought about it.

When my sister and brother in law got wind of it, they came and asked me what I was looking for, which was a strange thing to say, and they went their way , but a few weeks or months later they invited me to hear an evangelist speaking in a full gospel church.

The Lord spoke to inside of me and when they gave an alter call I responded after the Lord appeared to me.

Now I can not say that I was born from above at that time or when I first believed, because when the Holy Spirit did enter me, healing of my lungs occurred and I was filled with such joy that the one who had laid hands on me and prayed over me (not knowing what he should do because he thought I was being difficult) were wondering of it as my tears had turned to such joy.

There you have it, but I could go further.

I do not accept that one is born again when first believing or that one is baptized into the body of Christ when first believing or even when spoken to by the Lord.

Why men fight so hard to maintain a position which precludes them from going on to something further, can only be because of the sense of fear of their flesh and spirit losing dominance over their life.

Men do not die very easily if they are not overcome by love to give it.

LA

Sounds like you have placed all your faith in your experiences?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Sounds like you have placed all your faith in your experiences?

What experience have you had?

LA

 

[Cross Reference]

There is much more.

If something separates us then lets hear it.

LA

I have written much that you have already recognized what it is. I am asking you what it is that I might in bringing some rectification to the table. I am a Pentecostal. Lets start there Maybe?

 

[Interplanner]

Our experiences are inconclusive. The Gospel is about justification by Christ's experience: 'By his experience, my Righteous One will justify many.' Is. 53.

 

[Cross Reference]

Our experiences are inconclusive. The Gospel is about justification by Christ's experience: 'By his experience, my Righteous One will justify many.' Is. 53.

Perhaps it because you haven't had any? Just askin'.

 

[Interplanner]

I've had all kinds. None come even close to comparing to Is 53. How about you highlight Is 53 and let's talk about that?

 

[Cross Reference]

I've had all kinds. None come even close to comparing to Is 53.

If they were of God they would have remained.

How about you highlight Is 53 and let's talk about that?

Sure:

"1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors".

Isaiah 53:1-12 (KJV)

 

[Interplanner]

They were all great. But justification is about Christ's experience on our behalf. We cannot mix the two. Justification and personal transformation are not the same, like light and heat from the sun are not the same.

 

[Cross Reference]

They were all great. But justification is about Christ's experience on our behalf. We cannot mix the two. Justification and personal transformation are not the same, like light and heat from the sun are not the same.

Given what you have been presenting I am anxious to know what kind of experiences you had?

Justification is by righteousness. Active faith in God was all that was necessary to produce it. Jesus' death wasn't for bringing justification but for the making of peace with God for those who were so justified.. That they might move on into the process of personal transformation; son-ship in the Father per John 1:12 KJV.

 

[Cross Reference]

I gave you Isa 53 like you asked, planner.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I have written much that you have already recognized what it is. I am asking you what it is that I might in bringing some rectification to the table. I am a Pentecostal. Lets start there Maybe?

I have had most association with people of the pentecostal experiences of Acts, but little with the denominations called Pentecostals.

Justification is by righteousness. Active faith in God was all that was necessary to produce it. Jesus' death wasn't for bringing justification but for the making of peace with God for those who were so justified.. That they might move on into the process of personal transformation; son-ship in the Father per John 1:12 KJV.

Man, you nailed it all there in one paragraph.
LA

 

[Cross Reference]

I have had most association with people of the pentecostal experiences of Acts, but little with the denominations called Pentecostals.



Man, you nailed it all there in one paragraph.
LA

Didn't I say, "hang there with me" or was that someone else? . . () It's all there to be understood in Romans 5:1 KJV. AND this from Jesus: ". . . . “Those who are well have no need of a physician. . . . I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.” Mark 2:17 (ESV_ [the righteous being already justified.] Now what do you do with Romans 3:10 except to admit the interpretation of it by Calvinist and co., has always wrong.

" Don't let any of these homegrown "philosophical religious academiacs" take any of that away from you.

I am of no Pentecostal denomination. Never have been because of weaknesses I saw in them that would take one off on self or church or denomination serving tangents.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Didn't I say, "hang there with me" or was that someone else? . . () It's all there to be understood in Romans 5:1 KJV. Don't let any of these homegrown "philosophical religious academiacs" take it away from you.

I am of no Pentecostal denomination. Never have been because of weaknesses I saw in them that would take one off on self or church or denomination serving tangents.

What authors are you reading?

Worth mentioning is the atonement for the creation.

I have read light stuff years ago, but study none now.

I like to think the Lord can teach what I need to know without having to refer to the teachings of others.

I have long time just read the bible as directed to it by Another and others.

Personal things interest me rather than the teachings of men which in learning are of little use to daily life.

LA

 

[Cross Reference]

Worth mentioning is the atonement for the creation.

I have read light stuff years ago, but study none now.

I like to think the Lord can teach what I need to know without having to refer to the teachings of others.

I have long time just read the bible as directed to it by Another and others.

Personal things interest me rather than the teachings of men which in learning are of little use to daily life.

LA

I edited my last. You might want to re-read while digest this from you.

 

[Cross Reference]

Worth mentioning is the atonement for the creation.

Not really since we are all of Adam's race until the cross then it all changed, especially with those who believe the account of what happened when Jesus died.

I have read light stuff years ago, but study none now.

Here a link to all you will ever need by someone that is trusted by those worth their salt:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...EYqrG6tjUN6-Lbr6w&sig2=HwM456ABAcMPOT_qk9-1ow

I like to think the Lord can teach what I need to know without having to refer to the teachings of others.

That is a good thought expect if we didn't need teachers, especially those who have been with him in this life, then Jesus wouldn't have them as being administrative gifts to the church. Remember: Apostles, Teachers, Evangelists, Pastors and Elders?

I have long time just read the bible as directed to it by Another and others.

Download the link. It contains about 30 books. If you have PDF file converter all the better that you might get them into your word processor for annotations and note taking.

Personal things interest me rather than the teachings of men which in learning are of little use to daily life.

Not Oswald Chambers. You will find that out in a hurry. That is the attraction to him as no other. Everything he has spoken requires a pondering and a then another re-read. Guaranteed, you will grow in the Lord if that is what you are after. Heres a sample from his devotional that is included in the PDF file:

"I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Me". John 12:32.

"Very few of us have any understanding of the reason why Jesus Christ died. If sympathy is all that human beings need, then the Cross of Christ is a farce, there was no need for it. What the world needs is not ‘a little bit of love,’ but a surgical operation.

When you are face to face with a soul in difficulty spiritually, remind yourself of Jesus Christ on the Cross. If that soul can get to God on any other line, then the Cross of Jesus Christ is unnecessary. If you can help others by your sympathy or understanding, you are a traitor to Jesus Christ. You have to keep your soul rightly related to God and pour out for others on His line, not pour out on the human line and ignore God. The great note to-day is amiable religiosity.

The one thing we have to do is to exhibit Jesus Christ crucified, to lift Him up all the time. Every doctrine that is not imbedded in the Cross of Jesus will lead astray. If the worker himself believes in Jesus Christ and is banking on the Reality of Redemption, the people he talks to must be concerned. The thing that remains and deepens is the worker’s simple relationship to Jesus Christ; his usefulness to God depends on that and that alone.

The calling of a New Testament worker is to uncover sin and to reveal Jesus Christ as Saviour, consequently he cannot be poetical, he must be sternly surgical. We are sent by God to lift up Jesus Christ, not to give wonderfully beautiful discourses. We have to probe straight down as deeply as God has probed us, to be keen in sensing the Scriptures which bring the truth straight home and to apply them fearlessly."


Chambers, O. (1986). My utmost for his highest: Selections for the year. Grand Rapids, MI: Oswald Chambers Publications; Marshall Pickering.

Let me know how you make out.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Quote:
I like to think the Lord can teach what I need to know without having to refer to the teachings of others.--

That is a good thought expect if we didn't need teachers, especially those who have been with him in this life, then Jesus wouldn't have them as being administrative gifts to the church. Remember: Apostles, Teachers, Evangelists, Pastors and Elders?

I meant teachings like Calvanism etc.

I listen to men sometimes who help explain the Bible itself.

I like Perry Stone who covers a lot of ground in a short time, but he is also wrong in many things as well, but he mentions scripture.



LA

 

[Cross Reference]

Quote:
I like to think the Lord can teach what I need to know without having to refer to the teachings of others.--

That is a good thought expect if we didn't need teachers, especially those who have been with him in this life, then Jesus wouldn't have them as being administrative gifts to the church. Remember: Apostles, Teachers, Evangelists, Pastors and Elders?

I meant teachings like Calvanism etc.

I listen to men sometimes who help explain the Bible itself.

I like Perry Stone who covers a lot of ground in a short time, but he is also wrong in many things as well, but he mentions scripture

LA

Scrap Perry Stone. Download Chambers.