All Things come with Christ !

[beloved57]

Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

When God so loved the word that He gave or delivered Him up for us, it wasn't apart from some accompanying benefits, but with Him comes all things needed for Salvation, and its application.

Peter calls theses things that which pertains to life and godliness 2 Pet 1:1-3

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Now what are a few of the things that come with Christs death for us, thats freely given along with Him to us, if He in deed died for us ?

#1 Forgiveness of sins comes with Christ. The words freely give in Vs 32 is the word charizomai and means:
to do something pleasant or agreeable (to one), to do a favour to, gratify

1. to show one's self gracious, kind, benevolent
2. to grant forgiveness, to pardon
3. to give graciously, give freely, bestow
   1. to forgive

The word is used in Eph 4:32

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

And in Col 2 :13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

This forgiveness coming with Christs death is also intimated here Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

So quite frankly, Those who Christ died for, whom He was delivered up for, with Him was graciously given forgiveness of sins, pardon of all sins

 

[beloved57]

Now what are a few of the things that come with Christs death for us, thats freely given along with Him to us, if He in deed died for us ?

#2 Justification or Justification of Life, Now notice following the statement in Rom 8:32 that with Christ God freely gives us all things, Vs 33-34

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

This is linked to the fact that Christ died, equivalent to in Vs 32 God delivered Him up for us. And so consequently with that comes, God Justifieth, which is akin to forgiveness of sins, already alluded to

In fact its the same as that Justification of life Paul mentioned earlier in the epistle in Rom 5:18

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The word Justification here means:

1. the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him

So Justification accompanies Christ for those He was delivered up for.

 

[Clete]

Note that none of the above establishes the Calvinist doctrine of Limited Atonement. Notice how b57 simply presumes the truth of his doctrine and reads it into the texts he cites and then states the doctrine as fact and pretends that this is sufficient in spite of the biblical texts that explicitly tell us not only to choose life but also that God loves, and sent His Son Jesus to died for, the whole world and that it's WHOSOEVER believes who will gain the benefit of that death (and resurrection) not some arbitrarily picked handful of cosmic lottery winners that just happen to be in the group that Calvin's god picked for no reason whatsoever.

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

John 3:15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

 

[beloved57]

Note that none of the above establishes the Calvinist doctrine of Limited Atonement. Notice how b57 simply presumes the truth of his doctrine and reads it into the texts he cites and then states the doctrine as fact and pretends that this is sufficient in spite of the biblical texts that explicitly tell us not only to choose life but also that God loves, and sent His Son Jesus to died for, the whole world and that it's WHOSOEVER believes who will gain the benefit of that death (and resurrection) not some arbitrarily picked handful of cosmic lottery winners that just happen to be in the group that Calvin's god picked for no reason whatsoever.

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

John 3:15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Lol, You fighting against this Truth !

 

[Hoping]

Rom 8:32
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
When God so loved the word that He gave or delivered Him up for us, it wasn't apart from some accompanying benefits, but with Him comes all things needed for Salvation, and its application.
Peter calls theses things that which pertains to life and godliness 2 Pet 1:1-3
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Now what are a few of the things that come with Christs death for us, thats freely given along with Him to us, if He in deed died for us ?
#1 Forgiveness of sins comes with Christ. The words freely give in Vs 32 is the word charizomai and means:
to do something pleasant or agreeable (to one), to do a favour to, gratify

1. to show one's self gracious, kind, benevolent
2. to grant forgiveness, to pardon
3. to give graciously, give freely, bestow
   1. to forgive

The word is used in Eph 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
And in Col 2 :13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
This forgiveness coming with Christs death is also intimated here Matt 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

So quite frankly, Those who Christ died for, whom He was delivered up for, with Him was graciously given forgiveness of sins, pardon of all sins

Jesus died for all men, but only those who accept it, and Him, will be saved.
Thanks be to God !

 

[Clete]

Lol, You fighting against this Truth !

"Truth" with a capital 'T' as though your doctrine is God Himself. Are you capable of NOT blaspheming?

Not everything you said in your post was false. Much of it is normal, biblical Christian doctrine but it was obvious enough that what you were getting at was the doctrine of limited atonement which, like all other distinctively Calvinist doctrines, is as false as it can be.

In short, there isn't anything at all about your god that is just. You give nothing but lip service to justice and even then it's only after you've stripped the word "justice" of all its meaning.

 

[beloved57]

Now what are a few of the things that come with Christs death for us, that's freely given along with Him to us, if He in deed died for us ?

Reconciliation to God. Thats right, accompanying the giving of Christ is reconciliation to God, thats a free gracious act Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This is very enlightening. Even when we are unbelieving enemies, Christs death hath reconciled us to God. Even before those Christ died for are born into this world, Christs death hath done its job, and reconciled us to God, if He indeed died for us.

 

[Hoping]

Now what are a few of the things that come with Christs death for us, that's freely given along with Him to us, if He in deed died for us ?

Reconciliation to God. Thats right, accompanying the giving of Christ is reconciliation to God, thats a free gracious act Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This is very enlightening. Even when we are unbelieving enemies, Christs death hath reconciled us to God. Even before those Christ died for are born into this world, Christs death hath done its job, and reconciled us to God, if He indeed died for us.

And all we have to do is repent of sin, get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and endure faithfully until our end to partake of that reconciliation.
Thanks be to God for making the way to eternal life.

 

[Clete]

Now what are a few of the things that come with Christs death for us, that's freely given along with Him to us, if He in deed died for us ?

Reconciliation to God. Thats right, accompanying the giving of Christ is reconciliation to God, thats a free gracious act Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This is very enlightening. Even when we are unbelieving enemies, Christs death hath reconciled us to God. Even before those Christ died for are born into this world, Christs death hath done its job, and reconciled us to God, if He indeed died for us.

Only if you read your doctrine into the text.

Sort of the opposite of enlightening since you have to already have that in your head to get it out of the text.

 

[beloved57]

Now what are a few of the things that come with Christs death for us, that's freely given along with Him to us, if He in deed died for us ? With Him comes the Holy Spirit for Regeneration/New Life. Since Christ put away the sins of them He died for, they shall receive Life, they shall live Spiritually. Notice again the promise that is given to them that Christ died for and reconciled to God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The promise is they shall be saved by His Life, that is they shall be regenerated, quickened by Him because He is their risen Saviour and they need Spiritual life. Titus 3:5-7

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Also the Spirit here imparts Christ life to us, which saves us Spiritually from our spiritual death, and enmity against God. Its no such thing as Christ dying for someone and they not be saved by His Life, its impossible.

 

[Hoping]

Its no such thing as Christ dying for someone and they not be saved by His Life, its impossible.

Christ died for everyone.
But only those who accept it and submit to God will profit from it.
It is our choice whether or not to obey Him for the rest of our life.

 

[beloved57]

hoping

Christ died for everyone.

Sure everyone who is saved ! Those whom He died for #1 Were reconciled to God by His death #2 shall be Saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[Clete]

Proof texting is fun!

The same sort of techniques are used by every "Christian" cult leader known to history.

I remember back in the 90s, there was a TV show put on by a lunatic murderer who called himself "Yahweh Ben Yahweh". The entire show was one example after another of exactly the sort of thing that b57 has done here in the last several posts where you quote a passage, and you ALMOST let it say what it says but you twist it, ever so slightly, so that it means something other than what is actually being said by the author. Of course, there would be no need to do this if your doctrine was true because the bible was not written in some sort of code where only the initiated can understand it. In fact, most all of it is written on about the equivalent of a seventh grade reading level (depending on the translation) and can be understood by most third graders when it is read to them. It is only when you bring the traditions of men like Aristotle and Plato into your doctrine that things get so complex that you have to start twisting the scripture to force to agree with your traditions.

In short, we can know that the Calvinist doctrine of Limited Atonement is false for the same reason that we know that most all of the rest of Calvinism is false. We know its false because justice and righteousness are God's chief personal attributes. He is not arbitrary, therefore Limited Atonement is false.

That is, by the way, an argument that no Calvinist will touch with a ten foot pole. The closest any of them come to it is to make the terms "arbitrary" and "justice" synonymous, thus removing all meaning from the concept of justice. And it is always in that linguistic direction, by the way. They never make "arbitrary" mean what you think of when you use the word "justice" it's always that "justice" means what you think when you use the word "arbitrary". Once they've emptied the whole concept of justice of all its meaning then a whole swath of passages no longer give them heartburn and they're happy to call God just.

 

[Clete]

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

No commentary needed. It means what it seems to mean.
Therefore, Calvinism is FALSE!

 

[Hoping]

hoping



Sure everyone who is saved ! Those whom He died for #1 Were reconciled to God by His death #2 shall be Saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The means of reconciliation have been accomplished.
Jesus did everything necessary for us to turn from sin and unto Him and Father.
All we have to do, is use the "means".
Believers will, and unbelievers won't.

 

[beloved57]

The means of reconciliation have been accomplished.
Jesus did everything necessary for us to turn from sin and unto Him and Father.
All we have to do, is use the "means".
Believers will, and unbelievers won't.

According to Rom 5:10 what is Gods promise to them reconciled to Him by the death of His Son ?

 

[Clete]

According to Rom 5:10 what is Gods promise to them reconciled to Him by the death of His Son ?

Translation:

"Ignore everything the bible says about who God is, what sort of person He is and anything else that might pertain to the topic at hand a look only at the single verse that I wish to use as a proof text for one of my pet doctrines that cannot be established in any other way."

Don't fall for it, Hoping! Adopting his premise wins him the debate.

 

[JudgeRightly]

According to Rom 5:10 what is Gods promise to them reconciled to Him by the death of His Son?

Loaded question.

Paul is talking ABOUT BELIEVERS, TO BELIEVERS.

He is talking about "WE (believers) who have been reconciled, WE shall be saved by His life.

Not "the reconciled shall be saved by His life."

WE believers ARE reconciled, but you want to assume thats' the only thing that matters, because of your a priori belief in Limited Atonement.

P.S. This is made even clearer in 2 Corinthians 5:

Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. - 2 Corinthians 5:18-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:18-21&version=NKJV

God . . . has given us (believers) the ministry of reconciliation.

God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself.

God has committed to us (believers) the word of reconciliation (the gospel).

We (believers) are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us (believers)! "BE RECONCILED to God!

Your beliefs preclude Paul from even uttering those words, because he puts the responsibility on the unbeliever to "be reconciled to God."

 

[beloved57]

@JudgeRightly

Loaded question.

No it isnt

Paul is talking ABOUT BELIEVERS, TO BELIEVERS.

I know, but hes saying they were reconciled to God while enemies, unbelievers, by the death of Christ

Not "the reconciled shall be saved by His life."

Yes " the reconciled by His death, being reconciled, shall be saved by His Life !

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

WE believers ARE reconciled, but you want to assume thats' the only thing that matters, because of your a priori belief in Limited Atonement.

It is limited atonement, simply put those who Christ died for are #1 reconciled to God while still being enemies and #2 The reconciled shall be saved by His Life.

And you and i both dont believe in universalism, at least I dont. So there you have it, limited atonement. But my point is, these are things that come with Christ dying for one.

P.S. This is made even clearer in 2 Corinthians 5:

Thats a different discussion for now, however I have delved into that passage in my thread :

Reconciled to God while enemies !

Rom 5:10 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. All for whom Christ died, have been reconciled to God, by His death alone, not by their obedience, not by their faith, not by their...

theologyonline.com

 

[Hoping]

According to Rom 5:10 what is Gods promise to them reconciled to Him by the death of His Son ?

Rom 5:10..."For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."
The promise is that those reconciled to Him by the death of Jesus will be saved by Jesus' life.
Clearly Paul had Rom. 6 in mind when he wrote that, as Rom. 6 describes how the death and resurrection of Jesus can impact our life.
Baptized into Him, into His death, and into His resurrection.
I sure am glad I decided to believe it, or I wouldn't have been "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life". (Rom 6:4)