A Question Preterists Can't Seem to Answer

Clete

Truth Smacker
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If the second coming happened in 70 AD, why isn't there any record of it?

There were lots of believers who would have lived through the second coming of Christ but none, and I mean NONE, of the writers during the late first and early second centuries mention it. In fact, not only do they not mention the second coming of Christ, they clearly believed that the second coming, the resurrection of the saints and the judgment were to happen in the future. Where are the first person witnesses to the second coming of Christ and why didn't they show up to tell Didache, Barnabas, Hermas, Clement, Polycarp, and Ignatius that they had it wrong?

Was the second coming of the Earth's Creator done in secret? Is it that no one knew that it had happened at the time and the world was just going to have to wait another 1500+ years until Luis de Alcasar figured it out? Didn't Paul tell everyone what to look for? Wouldn't those witnessing such an important event as the second coming of Christ have realized that it was happening? If they did, where is their testimony? Why is there no evidence whatsoever of a belief in the already past second coming of Christ prior to the publication of "Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi" in 1614? A book that was written (i.e. a doctrine that was concocted) for the sole purpose of combating the Reformation, by the way.

Maybe all the real Christians were raptured out! That would certainly explain the deafening silence of history concerning God's second coming. Except, then you'd have to believe that either John wasn't a real Christian or that once again all the late first and early second century historical evidence concerning John's death near the year 100 is wrong and that no one showed up to correct the record. (Astoundingly, there are preterists who believe this! - It seems there is no limit to how far they'll go to force both the bible and history itself to fit their eschatology.)

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

KingdomRose

New member
If the second coming happened in 70 AD, why isn't there any record of it?

There were lots of believers who would have lived through the second coming of Christ but none, and I mean NONE, of the writers during the late first and early second centuries mention it. In fact, not only do they not mention the second coming of Christ, they clearly believed that the second coming, the resurrection of the saints and the judgment were to happen in the future. Where are the first person witnesses to the second coming of Christ and why didn't they show up to tell Didache, Barnabas, Hermas, Clement, Polycarp, and Ignatius that they had it wrong?

Was the second coming of the Earth's Creator done in secret? Is it that no one knew that it had happened at the time and the world was just going to have to wait another 1500+ years until Luis de Alcasar figured it out? Didn't Paul tell everyone what to look for? Wouldn't those witnessing such an important event as the second coming of Christ have realized that it was happening? If they did, where is their testimony? Why is there no evidence whatsoever of a belief in the already past second coming of Christ prior to the publication of "Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi" in 1614? A book that was written (i.e. a doctrine that was concocted) for the sole purpose of combating the Reformation, by the way.

Maybe all the real Christians were raptured out! That would certainly explain the deafening silence of history concerning God's second coming. Except, then you'd have to believe that either John wasn't a real Christian or that once again all the late first and early second century historical evidence concerning John's death near the year 100 is wrong and that no one showed up to correct the record. (Astoundingly, there are preterists who believe this! - It seems there is no limit to how far they'll go to force both the bible and history itself to fit their eschatology.)

Resting in Him,
Clete

Who is ignorant enough to believe that Jesus' second coming was in 70 A.D.? That person would have to ignore most of the Bible. When Jesus comes back he will eliminate all evil and set up his government that will last forever (Daniel 2:44; Isaiah 9:6,7). The dead will be raised. When did all that happen? Answer: it hasn't happened yet. Jesus hasn't come the 2nd time.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Who is ignorant enough to believe that Jesus' second coming was in 70 A.D.? That person would have to ignore most of the Bible. When Jesus comes back he will eliminate all evil and set up his government that will last forever (Daniel 2:44; Isaiah 9:6,7). The dead will be raised. When did all that happen? Answer: it hasn't happened yet. Jesus hasn't come the 2nd time.
That's exactly why preterism is mythology
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Who is ignorant enough to believe that Jesus' second coming was in 70 A.D.? That person would have to ignore most of the Bible. When Jesus comes back he will eliminate all evil and set up his government that will last forever (Daniel 2:44; Isaiah 9:6,7). The dead will be raised. When did all that happen? Answer: it hasn't happened yet. Jesus hasn't come the 2nd time.

Well that's what preterists believe, KR! They believe that all or most of all biblical prophecy has already been fulfilled, including the "parousia" (i.e. the 2nd coming).
 

musterion

Well-known member
If the second coming happened in 70 AD, why isn't there any record of it?

There were lots of believers who would have lived through the second coming of Christ but none, and I mean NONE, of the writers during the late first and early second centuries mention it. In fact, not only do they not mention the second coming of Christ, they clearly believed that the second coming, the resurrection of the saints and the judgment were to happen in the future. Where are the first person witnesses to the second coming of Christ and why didn't they show up to tell Didache, Barnabas, Hermas, Clement, Polycarp, and Ignatius that they had it wrong?

Was the second coming of the Earth's Creator done in secret? Is it that no one knew that it had happened at the time and the world was just going to have to wait another 1500+ years until Luis de Alcasar figured it out? Didn't Paul tell everyone what to look for? Wouldn't those witnessing such an important event as the second coming of Christ have realized that it was happening? If they did, where is their testimony? Why is there no evidence whatsoever of a belief in the already past second coming of Christ prior to the publication of "Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi" in 1614? A book that was written (i.e. a doctrine that was concocted) for the sole purpose of combating the Reformation, by the way.

Maybe all the real Christians were raptured out! That would certainly explain the deafening silence of history concerning God's second coming. Except, then you'd have to believe that either John wasn't a real Christian or that once again all the late first and early second century historical evidence concerning John's death near the year 100 is wrong and that no one showed up to correct the record. (Astoundingly, there are preterists who believe this! - It seems there is no limit to how far they'll go to force both the bible and history itself to fit their eschatology.)

Resting in Him,
Clete


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Tambora

Get your armor ready!
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Clete,

I have started to see some preterists re-examining their "no rapture" view.
Or, maybe a better way to say it is that they are moving the rapture from the spiritualized to the literalized.
And now say that a literal rapture took place in 70AD (or thereabout).
Some even say the extent of that rapture was only for "those standing there" that would not taste death till they saw the Son of Man coming in glory (ie. a special one time rapture for a limited group).

This is how they are fixing the conundrum as to why there was silence on the matter ------ because the ones that experienced it were no longer on earth to tell anyone about it!
To everyone else, it was just a mystery of missing persons. (Probably had a few missing person posters stapled on poles and copied on milk jugs for a while.)
 

beameup

New member
pretersim is based upon ignorance. Up until the 3rd century, they couldn't get away with "preterism" because there were still living disciples of disciples of the original disciples, and most people were fairly literate. Origen's (184-253AD) "allegoricalization" of Scripture solved that problem as you could dismiss literal meanings of Scripture.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
pretersim is based upon ignorance. Up until the 3rd century, they couldn't get away with "preterism" because there were still living disciples of disciples of the original disciples, and most people were fairly literate. Origen's (184-253AD) "allegoricalization" of Scripture solved that problem as you could dismiss literal meanings of Scripture.

I notice there are no preterists in this thread because they can't answer the questions
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Clete,

I have started to see some preterists re-examining their "no rapture" view.
Or, maybe a better way to say it is that they are moving the rapture from the spiritualized to the literalized.
And now say that a literal rapture took place in 70AD (or thereabout).
Some even say the extent of that rapture was only for "those standing there" that would not taste death till they saw the Son of Man coming in glory (ie. a special one time rapture for a limited group).

This is how they are fixing the conundrum as to why there was silence on the matter ------ because the ones that experienced it were no longer on earth to tell anyone about it!
To everyone else, it was just a mystery of missing persons. (Probably had a few missing person posters stapled on poles and copied on milk jugs for a while.)

It is incredible that anyone could possibly believe such a doctrine, but you are 100% correct, this is one "explanation" that I've seen along with a few other, equally incredible ideas.

For any of you reading this thread that might think that the proposed explanation sounds reasonable, I'd like to just state emphatically that it is NOT reasonable in any way, shape, fashion or form. This is NOT how theology is supposed to be done. If this kind of reasoning was valid then there isn't any doctrine, any idea at all, that could ever be shown to be false. You simply cannot work from a doctrine backward like this. It makes no difference if you're starting from the validity of the catholic doctrine of original sin, or the dispensational doctrine of the rapture or the scientific doctrines of the big bang, relativity and evolution or whatever other truth claim you can think of. IT IS NOT VALID to hold a truth claim as an a-priori presupposition and reason backward from that conclusion to find supporting premises for that conclusion! That isn't how reason works - ever - period. It is, however, the unfortunate manner in which most people and almost all Christians seem to think!

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Clete,

I have started to see some preterists re-examining their "no rapture" view.
Or, maybe a better way to say it is that they are moving the rapture from the spiritualized to the literalized.
And now say that a literal rapture took place in 70AD (or thereabout).
Some even say the extent of that rapture was only for "those standing there" that would not taste death till they saw the Son of Man coming in glory (ie. a special one time rapture for a limited group).

This is how they are fixing the conundrum as to why there was silence on the matter ------ because the ones that experienced it were no longer on earth to tell anyone about it!
To everyone else, it was just a mystery of missing persons. (Probably had a few missing person posters stapled on poles and copied on milk jugs for a while.)

I assume you consider a "rapture" of believers to be a "resurrection" of sorts, of both the living and the dead.

Just wondering what you make of Matthew 27:51-53 and what theological label you attach and teaching application you make of this event.

???
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Mat.27:52-53 is not genuine.

None could be raised from the dead until Christ was at least, however the teaching of scripture is---

Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The RCC likes the insertion.

LA
 

Danoh

New member
Not a peep from the Preterists (Tet, excluded, since he is obviously off at another "Latest Preterist Notions" conventions; together with a wide variety of endless books "about" on the table in the back, that are all the rage now).

They sure have a lot in common with those supposed "Prophecy Preacher" sensationalists they are ever lumping all Dispys together with.

What's next for the Preterist to repackage - that the Left Behind books and movie foolishness are actually a metaphor for Preterisms' 70AD?
 
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