You do know that Peyton Manning's only Super Bowl win came against the Rex Grossman led Bears, who arguably were one of the worst Super Bowl participants of all-time?
2015 NBA Playoffs thread
- Thread starter The Berean
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You do know that Peyton Manning's only Super Bowl win came against the Rex Grossman led Bears, who arguably were one of the worst Super Bowl participants of all-time?
None. Jordan is the worst example of anything as the "Jordan halo rule" was in full effect, and quite honestly, a sham.
Both Finals teams this year would get run off the floor in 4 straight by the teams I watched when I started watching the NBA. I always give Tragic Johnson credit, but also point out the Hall of Fame players on his roster, where as James...not so much. Same with Bird. It certainly didn't suck having Kevin McHale and Robert Parish on the floor with him. Or Dennis Johnson. Or Bill Walton at the end of his career. I dare say Magic and my Lakers don't win back to back if Len Bias doesn't give cocain a try one night.
Pippen is in the Hall, but he belongs there about as much as Rafael Palmeiro. He couldn't even get past said New York Bricks when Jordan was making a fool of himself in the minors. Unless 16.1 ppg is somehow a good number for a non-multitalented player. Lets go down that rabbit trail. Bernard King could drop 30 on anybody he wanted whenever he wanted.
And Michael Jordan is as good and skilled as anybody, at his position.
The worst Super Bowl rating for a QB was Ben Roethlisberger in Super Bowl XL with a 22.6 rating.
Elway's Super Bowl XXII rating was 36.8 (third worst).
Of the Top 15 Worst QB Ratings in a Super Bowl, Roethlisberger is the only QB to get a win.
If you're referring to the Lakers and Celtics of the 80's, I agree.
However, this Warriors team is like no team I have ever seen before.
They're young, with a rookie coach. We'll see what happens.
Do you realize I'm using my Colts as an argument AGAINST using regular season wins as an indicator of greatness?
lain:That said, Chicago was 13-3 and beat the Seahawks and Saints to earn their ticket.
That Bears defense gave up the third fewest points in the league that year and placed second as a scoring defense.
The Colts had to make it via WC that year, tearing KC a new one before gutting one out against the Ravens. Finally they had to go to New England and beat the Pats in a shoot out after trailing 21-3.
The best balanced team Peyton ever saw in Indy, though still not a great one. The Bears and Colts were, by different means, in a tie for second place in points scored. On defense the Colts were a dismal 23rd in points allowed to the Bears 3rd.
Vegas had Indy a near 7 pt favorite, which isn't an incredible line.
Do you realize I'm using my Colts as an argument AGAINST using regular season wins as an indicator of greatness?
It's not apples to apples.
There's a really big difference.
Every time the Colts dominated the regular season, they choked in the post-season.
The Warriors dominated the regular season, then won the championship.
There's absolutely no similarities between the Colts and Warriors.
Had the Warriors choked, and lost in the first round, then I could see the comparison.
Warriors win, thread closed.
Do you realize I'm using my Colts as an argument AGAINST using regular season wins as an indicator of greatness?
The team that best resembles your Peyton Manning Colts was the 90's Atlanta Braves.
Every year the Braves were the best team and dominated the decade in the regular season, but managed just one World Series title (they got to play Cleveland) because they always found a way to lose in the post season.
Las Vegas has the Cleveland Cavaliers as next year's favorite at 9-4
I guarantee the Cavaliers will NOT win the championship next year.
I guarantee the Cavaliers will NOT win the championship next year.
It is on the point I'm making.
That's not really true. But the most dominant season of the Pats ended with a loss in the game that mattered most. So?
Against a broken team it still couldn't sweep.
Sure there are. The Colts won the pants off the regular season. And the year they won their ring they went 12-4.
That's because you're irrational where the Colts are concerned.
That's because you're irrational where the Colts are concerned.
84 days until my Steelers play the Patriots.
87 days till Peyton Manning plays the Ravens.
:argue:
Can't wait until the season starts. I'll be interested in how my Colts and my former qb do.
When that great Celtics team won 8 straight championships from 1959 - 1966 they had ONE sweep. They also had three series that went 7 games.
When the Bulls won six championships in the 90's they had ZERO sweeps.
When the Lakers won five championships in the 80's they had ZERO sweeps. When the Celtics won three championships in the 80's they had ZERO sweeps.
When the Lakers won five championships in the 2000's they had ONE sweep.
Yet, for some reason, you claim the Warriors championship this year is diminished because they didn't sweep the Cavs.
It isn't about the sweep, tet. It's about failing to sweep a team missing two high caliber starters when you field that glorious record and the league MVP.
That doesn't make GS a bad champion, but it qualifies the victory.
I'm pretty sure I noted that the teams playing in that run were better and I'd take any number of them to best GS in a finals.
Right. And none of those played injury decimated teams with so-so benches to reach to while advancing against a stronger competition.
Tet, you know that's not the picture.
What I've said, above and prior, is that GS is a terrific team headed by a remarkable player. But they took six games to beat a team that through attrition by injury was mostly playing an unremarkable bench and one great starter. And they had to get one of those four wins in overtime. That's not greatness, it's just good enough.
I was thinking 19, but not sure. I still haven't looked it up....until now.
I see 19.4 posted. He completed 38% of his passes. Somebody might have a typo to say 36.8. Or the 19 is wrong.
He was 10/26 108 yards 0 TD 2 INT.
The next Superbowl the Broncos played in was when Davis rushed for 150 yards while being blind from migraines and missing a quarter. Elway was 12/23 for 122 yards 0TD and 1 INT. And that was the win against Green Bay.
The NFL QB rating is an efficiency rating. Some don't like it. It is only a tool and a statistic that shows information. Some that didn't like it came out with their new number the QBR, or Total Quarterback Rating.
Yards per attempt, not yards per completion. Touchdowns per attempt, interceptions per attempt, and completions per attempt. Everybody that is said to be in the argument for greatest is at the top of that list except Elway. Brady, Manning, Montana, Young, Rodgers, Warner, and others not considered legends but their passing is.
Elway's career number is 79.9 which is 65th behind such stars as Neil Lomax, Rich Gannon, and Jay Cutler. And Chad Pennington.
Elway probably could have been as productive as Marino without such a stubborn head coach. Then nobody would be talking about is he as good as Montana. No, he wasn't. But he could have been.
It is never a bad time to talk NFL.
The Berean
Well-known member
I still can't believe the Warriros are NBA champions! :banana:
It's been such a long wait. I started watching the Warriors during the Bernard King days (about 1981).I didn't know it then but the team was in decline. King was an All-Star in 1981-82. So of course the Warriors traded King to the Knicks where King became a New York sports hero.
The Warriors had just traded Robert Parrish and a draft pick to the Celtics for Joe Barry Carroll. That draft pick ended up being Kevin McHale and the Celtics entered their 1980's greatness. Carroll got a rep as being extremely lazy and was nick named Joe Barely Cares. Carroll did have a solid seven seasons with the Warriors averaging 20.4 ppg with the Warriors. He even made one All-Star team. But he was never the superstar the Warriors thought he would be. In his final season he did lead the Warriors to their first postseason in a decade. They upset the Utah Jazz in the first round but got beat by the Lakers in the 2nd round, 4-1. The only win was the famous Sleepy Floyd game. Floyd scored 51 points including 29 points in the 4th quarter.
In the 1986 drafted the Warriors drafted Chris Washburn with the #3 pick. Washburn turned out to be a drug addict and played just 72 games in his NBA career. He was banned from the NBA permanently. He was even living on the streets for a while.
The Warriors drafted Chris Mullen in the 1985 draft draft. In Mullen's third season he admitted to the Warriors that he had a drinking problem and entered a rehab center. Unlike Chris Washburn Mullen turned his life and career around. From 1988-93 Mullen was one of the best players in the NBA. He averaged 25.8 ppg over these five seasons and was a five time all-star. Mullen was a member of the legendary 1992 USA Olympic Dream Team. Mullen was teamed up Mitch Richmond and Tim Hardaway, the famous Run TMC Warriors. This was a fun team to watch, running up and down the floor. But they were never really a top NBA title contender due to a lack of a big man.
In the 1990's the Warriors made some really dumb draft picks and trades. In 1993 the Warriors had the #3 pick and picked Anfernee Hardaway. The Orlando Magic drafted Chris Webber but wanted Hardaway so the Warriors traded for Chris Webber. Webber had a great rookie season, leading the Warriors to a 50 win season. They lost in the first round but the Warriors finally had that superstar player to build a franchise around. But Webber didn't get a long with coach Don Nelson so the Warriors traded Webber to the Washington Bullets for Tom Gugliotta. The Warriors wouldn't not reach the postseason again for 18 years.
The poor drafting continued. The Warriors had the #1 pick in the 1995 draft. They picked Joe Smith instead of Kevin Garnett who went on to a Hall of Fame career. In the 1996 draft the Warriors picked Todd Fuller with the #11 pick. Two picks later some high school kid named Kobe Bryant was picked. Fuller played five NBA seasons, three with the Warriors. Kobe went on to be five time NBA champion and become of the greatest players in NBA history.
Remember the Hardaway trade? The Warriors also sent a 1998 #1 pick. That pick ended up being Vince Carter who was a nine time all-star.
The common theme throughout most of the title drought, especially in the 2000's, was the Warriors utter lack of identifying good basketball talent. They finally changed in 2009 when they drafted Steph Curry.
So after 30+ years of mostly crappy basketball I am enjoying this NBA title very much. :banana:
It's been such a long wait. I started watching the Warriors during the Bernard King days (about 1981).I didn't know it then but the team was in decline. King was an All-Star in 1981-82. So of course the Warriors traded King to the Knicks where King became a New York sports hero.
The Warriors had just traded Robert Parrish and a draft pick to the Celtics for Joe Barry Carroll. That draft pick ended up being Kevin McHale and the Celtics entered their 1980's greatness. Carroll got a rep as being extremely lazy and was nick named Joe Barely Cares. Carroll did have a solid seven seasons with the Warriors averaging 20.4 ppg with the Warriors. He even made one All-Star team. But he was never the superstar the Warriors thought he would be. In his final season he did lead the Warriors to their first postseason in a decade. They upset the Utah Jazz in the first round but got beat by the Lakers in the 2nd round, 4-1. The only win was the famous Sleepy Floyd game. Floyd scored 51 points including 29 points in the 4th quarter.
In the 1986 drafted the Warriors drafted Chris Washburn with the #3 pick. Washburn turned out to be a drug addict and played just 72 games in his NBA career. He was banned from the NBA permanently. He was even living on the streets for a while.
The Warriors drafted Chris Mullen in the 1985 draft draft. In Mullen's third season he admitted to the Warriors that he had a drinking problem and entered a rehab center. Unlike Chris Washburn Mullen turned his life and career around. From 1988-93 Mullen was one of the best players in the NBA. He averaged 25.8 ppg over these five seasons and was a five time all-star. Mullen was a member of the legendary 1992 USA Olympic Dream Team. Mullen was teamed up Mitch Richmond and Tim Hardaway, the famous Run TMC Warriors. This was a fun team to watch, running up and down the floor. But they were never really a top NBA title contender due to a lack of a big man.
In the 1990's the Warriors made some really dumb draft picks and trades. In 1993 the Warriors had the #3 pick and picked Anfernee Hardaway. The Orlando Magic drafted Chris Webber but wanted Hardaway so the Warriors traded for Chris Webber. Webber had a great rookie season, leading the Warriors to a 50 win season. They lost in the first round but the Warriors finally had that superstar player to build a franchise around. But Webber didn't get a long with coach Don Nelson so the Warriors traded Webber to the Washington Bullets for Tom Gugliotta. The Warriors wouldn't not reach the postseason again for 18 years.
The poor drafting continued. The Warriors had the #1 pick in the 1995 draft. They picked Joe Smith instead of Kevin Garnett who went on to a Hall of Fame career. In the 1996 draft the Warriors picked Todd Fuller with the #11 pick. Two picks later some high school kid named Kobe Bryant was picked. Fuller played five NBA seasons, three with the Warriors. Kobe went on to be five time NBA champion and become of the greatest players in NBA history.
Remember the Hardaway trade? The Warriors also sent a 1998 #1 pick. That pick ended up being Vince Carter who was a nine time all-star.
The common theme throughout most of the title drought, especially in the 2000's, was the Warriors utter lack of identifying good basketball talent. They finally changed in 2009 when they drafted Steph Curry.
So after 30+ years of mostly crappy basketball I am enjoying this NBA title very much. :banana:
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I mentioned his name the other day in lamenting how bad the league is. Not just expansion, but not working as hard as Jordan, but thinking they can play like him. Bernard King and others were so much better at offense. I watched a show on ESPN on the bad boys (Detroit Pistons) and they mentioned sending Adrian Dantley for Mark Aguire. Aguire was another who could drop 30 on anybody any day, without having to muscle his way like Shaq or James.