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Do you think angels are still turning against GOd since the creation of the physical universe?

Hmmmm...thinking, thinking... Ummm, do angels die? Do angels sin? If they do not die, is it because they don't sin or do they not sin because they don't die?

Agreed!!! :)

For the wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23. Death is a consequence of sin, not a consequence of human life or situation. This equals: death proves sinfulness...

...only for some. Ie, there is no reason to believe every child killed was a non-elect, but it does seem to fit that idea. All the people of the evil one are sown into mankind by the devil. When, why and where would be up to GOD. IF "God determines when every one of us dies." means the...

Ahhh Romans 9:11, hard meat, dried in the sun...a hard chew. What I see that the point of their story is: two sinners trying to crush each other to pieces (which is the actual word used in the verse, NOT wrestle, struggle or jostle each other) over who would be first born, an exhibition of...

This rests upon the idea that to be a sinner is to know the difference between good and evil but sinners need their eyes to be opened to their personal sin by the teaching of their parent by the teaching of the law: 1 Timothy 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for...

Establish? Death by Adam is established by the sin of Adam or innocents are suffering and dying... or death by their free will decision to sin, not only Adam's choice, is established by the death of those who have not yet been able to choose to sin by choice, on earth ie, the death of...

Jesus was a unique human in that He was GOD incarnate. It is no big leap of faith to think that the reason for death in sinful humans does NOT apply to the sinless God who is our saviour who died for love.

ttruscott: Death proves sin... All who die, die from the guilt of sin. Their guilt is personal so their sin is personal or they are dying for another's free will sin...which I no longer accept.

DEATH entered with Adam, direct quote of Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned. I accept without sleight of mind that sin entered the world with Adam even though he was not the...

struggling: Gen 25:22 7533. ratsats ► Lexical Summary ratsats: To crush, to oppress, to break Word Origin: [a primitive root] 1. to crack in pieces, literally or figuratively I suggest that it was softened in its meaning to become struggle or to jostle to repudiate the idea that they...

I believe the words that say HE died without sin...against the ordinary way of this world, proving to me HE was special, our personal GOD and true Saviour!!!.

But that is my point: guilt IS personal so the sin must be personal. Sin in Adam is NOT personal if it is adjudicated by fiat from GOD, the loving, just, GOD who cannot abide with evil. To be personally guilty of sin is only by making the personal decision to rebel. Orthodoxy wants us to...

...according to you GOD did it to me, HE made me this way by having me made in Adam. Don't taze me bro! Don't burn me at your stake!!!!

Technically babies do not go to hell, their 6000 year old spirits go to sheol.

Ok, fair enough - I did feel a little sniffy, sorry.

Yes is correct - the people of the evil one who are older than the physical universe in spirit, (How old are they then?) but if when sown into this world hey die in the womb as babies, then they go to Sheol to later go to the Great White Throne judgement and then on to eternal punishment, Matt...

I know other Christians who believe in our pre-earth existence but as far as I know there is no sect or group of believers. AS for believing the death of infants proves they to go to hell, you are wrong. Some people might believe this but PCE does not accept this over the ordinary death of any...

In broad terms yes, that is the essence. To round out the filling of the earth with mankind just a bit more about the post garden period: In the history of the war in heaven, we are told that when the dragon was hurled into the earth, he swept one third of the angels with him to fight against...