ONE pink elephant. At least, that is what the Irishman said.
I just hear this: Why was Satan told to partake of the ground?
- Thread starter Ps82
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7djengo7
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I like how an Irishman seems to be distinct from mankind, here. And, wouldn't that have to be a bar inside a bar, for an Irishman to be walking into it?
Uh oh ... not sure how to do this. Hmmm. I will look back. Thanks.
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theologyonline.com
Oh yes... Satan knows how to harm humanity and he is out to get us.
Yes. It is the will of God for all to be saved and he has provided THE WAY. But there is something called man's freewill. Now there is the rub.
Something new to ponder. Yes, but I say Satan may have been set up for that defeat when God associated him with the cursed ground and then at his trial in Ps 82 told him that he would die like men. Like one of the prince/leaders among men. IOW, the small and great who have rejected HIM as LORD. Christ accomplished his roll of death on the cross and the miracle of his blood to overcome death in the dust and hell.
Nice conversation. Thanks
This is a repeat of my mistake in post 24. Thanks JudgeRightly.
I also don't know what @Ps 82 means when people use it.
Yes. It is the will of God for all to be saved and he has provided THE WAY. But there is something called man's freewill. Now there is the rub.
Something new to ponder. Yes, but I say Satan may have been set up for that defeat when God associated him with the cursed ground and then at his trial in Ps 82 told him that he would die like men. Like one of the prince/leaders among men. IOW, the small and great who have rejected HIM as LORD. Christ accomplished his roll of death on the cross and the miracle of his blood to overcome death in the dust and hell.
Nice conversation. Thanks
This is a repeat of my mistake in post 24. Thanks JudgeRightly.
I also don't know what @Ps 82 means when people use it.
No I didn't @7djengo7 ... I've wondered what the @so in so meant. New to me. I had not done very much on TOL for quite some time.
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2000 views does not mean that 2000 unique people have viewed it.
Someone posting questioned what I said about Psalm 82 - which is a favorite topic for me.
QUOTE: [I had said: God told Satan that he would die like a man.]
That someone said Ps.82 didn't say that; so, here is what my KJV did say:
[God Almighty is speaking to Satan]: But ye [Satan] shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Now, how do I know that God Almighty is talking to Satan for Satan's name is never mentioned?
My Explanation:
People need to read Ps 82 as if it is a scene in a play.
Continued: How long will you accept the persons of the wicked? Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy? ... They know not, neither will they understand; they walk in darkness and all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
Now, I ask those reading this post questions:
Now God Almighty suddenly interrupts the accused: [paraphrased] I have called you gods; and said ALL OF YOU are children of mine.
[I hope readers are seeing that the accused is man's great accuser - Satan. So Satan has been talking about the crime and the state of humanity after the fall and how God is too kind to them. ALL OF YOU refers to Satan/+ perhaps 1/3 of angelic beings and mankind.]
Question: Do you also see that angels were called gods while angels and mankind were considered God's children? Makes sense.
Now God continues to speak: But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Questions:
God has the last word in this play: Arise, O God, judge the earth; for thou shalt inherit all nations.
I challenge anyone reading this post to identify the God who will arise.
Hints. He will be on Earth by the time of the Lake of Fire event. He will arise and inherit the nations. He will judge and rule.
QUOTE: [I had said: God told Satan that he would die like a man.]
That someone said Ps.82 didn't say that; so, here is what my KJV did say:
[God Almighty is speaking to Satan]: But ye [Satan] shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Now, how do I know that God Almighty is talking to Satan for Satan's name is never mentioned?
My Explanation:
People need to read Ps 82 as if it is a scene in a play.
- There is a setting: A place where God holds court as a judge among the gods. Now, most of us have learned that "gods" can refer to the super-natural angels. So you decide exactly where this was taking place.
- Next there are characters speaking. Readers can figure them out as they speak and because Bible students know other scripture.
- If God is sitting and judging then there must be an accused attempting to defend himself. And there is. I will paraphrase the content but read the KJV for yourself and watch what the accused has to say:
Continued: How long will you accept the persons of the wicked? Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy? ... They know not, neither will they understand; they walk in darkness and all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
Now, I ask those reading this post questions:
- From scripture who is it that caused the foundations of the earth to be out of course?
- Who among God's created persons are the most clueless, poor, fatherless, afflicted and needy?
Now God Almighty suddenly interrupts the accused: [paraphrased] I have called you gods; and said ALL OF YOU are children of mine.
[I hope readers are seeing that the accused is man's great accuser - Satan. So Satan has been talking about the crime and the state of humanity after the fall and how God is too kind to them. ALL OF YOU refers to Satan/+ perhaps 1/3 of angelic beings and mankind.]
Question: Do you also see that angels were called gods while angels and mankind were considered God's children? Makes sense.
Now God continues to speak: But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Questions:
- Who is it standing before God the Judge at that moment? Ans. Obvious by now - Satan. God is pronouncing his judgement!
- What is it? Ans. He will die like men.
- Now, do we know how and when that will happen? Ans. It happens when lost people and lost Satan [and I suggest 1/3 of lost angels] are thrown into the Lake of Fire.
God has the last word in this play: Arise, O God, judge the earth; for thou shalt inherit all nations.
I challenge anyone reading this post to identify the God who will arise.
Hints. He will be on Earth by the time of the Lake of Fire event. He will arise and inherit the nations. He will judge and rule.
7djengo7
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"Newf to me."
I think you might be using a typeface from 300 years ago, when they featured an f-like character to function as an s.
One more thing, though (of admittedly little or no importance): that @TAG function seems to be mainly for use in posts in which you have not used the direct +Quote function on the TOL user whom you are addressing. Not that you can't use both in a post -- I have often done so. But the +Quote function, as you know, serves the purpose of notifying your addressee upon posting your reply, so that the @TAG function is, perhaps, functionally superfluous in such posts. But I kind of like using it anyways -- if only for throwing in a touch of visual variety here and there in an otherwise kind of bland field of black and white.
Right. And don't over think things. He said this to Israel.
29 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Hi Nick,
He also says we are to seek him. This hope regarding seeking God and trusting that it is truth is what began a long study I've done, - Know the Father ... and it became Seeking the Father; Finding the Son.
Luke 11:9-10 And I say unto you, ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For everyone that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him.
Psalm 9:10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou LORD has not forsaken them that seek thee.
Proverbs 8:17 I love them that seek me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Why did the use of the word "ground" in Genesis begin to interest me so much?
I read the event where Jesus took spittle from his mouth and added it to some dust of the ground and formed eyeballs for a man who had none since birth. It reminded me of the 7th day of creation when the LORD formed the body of Adam out of the dust of the ground. That would have included eyeballs as well.
So I looked closely at Genesis 2. The LORD, instead of adding spittle to the dust of the ground caused a mist [a small measure] of water to come upon the ground.
The two events seemed so similar to me.
Then things began to fall in place. The LORD added life to the elements of the creation identified as 'ground.' Dust was the term used to describe ground to which no life had been added. IOW, to form man's living body there had to be a measure of water [spiritual life] and the elements of the dust of the ground [elements within creation].
When I read how both Satan and Adam [mankind] was commanded to partake of the ground for the rest of their lives I began to see a few revelations.
Satan had been created as a immortal angel who did not die physically. Yet God had his partake of the dust of the ground.
What dust? Well obviously the dust left behind of the dead bodies of the lost souls.
Ever since Satan has wanted to rob people of their salvation and claim owner ship of those dusty bodies and take those souls not circumcised from the curse to the Lake of Fire with him.
Then came Ps 82 which says Satan will die like men... It was obvious to me that Satan will die like lost mankind ... due to their both remaining attached to the cursed ground at the end times. So goes the cursed ground so goes all angels and people who remain lost. This is called the Second death.
It seems this describes the Second Death. It will be the second death for humanity and the first death for Satan, but Satan would ultimately die like mankind.
I read the event where Jesus took spittle from his mouth and added it to some dust of the ground and formed eyeballs for a man who had none since birth. It reminded me of the 7th day of creation when the LORD formed the body of Adam out of the dust of the ground. That would have included eyeballs as well.
So I looked closely at Genesis 2. The LORD, instead of adding spittle to the dust of the ground caused a mist [a small measure] of water to come upon the ground.
The two events seemed so similar to me.
- The LORD God caused a mist of water to come upon the ground before he formed a functioning body for Adam.
- God the Son put spittle, [a small measure] of water, upon the ground before he formed functional eyeballs for a man.
Then things began to fall in place. The LORD added life to the elements of the creation identified as 'ground.' Dust was the term used to describe ground to which no life had been added. IOW, to form man's living body there had to be a measure of water [spiritual life] and the elements of the dust of the ground [elements within creation].
When I read how both Satan and Adam [mankind] was commanded to partake of the ground for the rest of their lives I began to see a few revelations.
- God told Satan to partake of the dust of the ground [the lifeless elements - such as the body of a human who had died.
- God told Adam to partake of the ground [a living body] until he died.
- God then cursed the dust of the ground and said that he had cursed the ground for man's sake. IOW for man's own good!
- Then I realized that man would be able to shed his dead body and if saved, be given a robe of white and as a saint wait unto he received his own glorified body.
- So death of the body was a release which would lead to a good thing - called eternal life with a glorified body.
Satan had been created as a immortal angel who did not die physically. Yet God had his partake of the dust of the ground.
What dust? Well obviously the dust left behind of the dead bodies of the lost souls.
Ever since Satan has wanted to rob people of their salvation and claim owner ship of those dusty bodies and take those souls not circumcised from the curse to the Lake of Fire with him.
Then came Ps 82 which says Satan will die like men... It was obvious to me that Satan will die like lost mankind ... due to their both remaining attached to the cursed ground at the end times. So goes the cursed ground so goes all angels and people who remain lost. This is called the Second death.
It seems this describes the Second Death. It will be the second death for humanity and the first death for Satan, but Satan would ultimately die like mankind.
ttruscott
Well-known member
This is intriguing alright... I'll think about it.
But to springboard, something else also catches my attention here:
Berean Standard Bible
Gen 3:14 is for another hint about something:
So the LORD God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and every beast of the field!
rminding usd of v2:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field that the LORD God had made.
How can he be more evil and more cursed ABOVE the others if they are not evil also and cursed for their evil a little less?
Evil animals under a curse??
Animals under the curse on men for their violence so they died in the flood: Gen 6:5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time. 6 And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the LORD said, “I will blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—every man and beast and crawling creature and bird of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.”
How does our theology explain this? GOD cannot create evil so what happened here? Satan, ie, the serpent, was not created evil but fell by his free will so how did the animals become evil?? Curiouser and curiouser....evil on earthly things, not just the serpent, before the eating of the fruit and the curse upon the earth.
PART ONE:
When I read my KJV I interpret the phrased "cursed above all to mean cursed more than all ...
I looked up the word Beast in Gen. 3:14 in my Strong's Concordance. It's meaning has to do with "living" as in living creatures and living things. So, if the Serpent/Satan was cursed more than all living creatures then he was even cured more than mankind ... for we too are created living creatures.
Now, verse 14 also mentions that Satan was cursed more than any living thing of the field. So what is the field?
In the New testament Jesus once said something like this: The fields are ready for harvest. This was also figurative speech. He was saying that mankind upon the earth/world were ready to be gathered unto eternal life. The word field can have a bigger meaning than a pasture in order to mean our domain. Strong's Concordance suggests ... spread out; a flat field; a country, field , ground, land, soil x wild.
Using what I just learned from these two quick searches I would suggest rewriting verse 14 like this:
And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou are cursed more than all cattle , and more than every living beast in this land of soil/ground. Upon they belly shalt thou go, and [lifeless] dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Check out Genesis 2:19 tells us that The LORD God formed every beast of the field and every fowl of the air out of the ground and this probably included cattle. That means these living creatures have bodies formed of the same ingredients as that of humanity --- The elements of this world called ground.
PART TWO:
Some how Satan was more cursed than all creatures including mankind in this world. Now, in what way? I have thoughts of The Lake of Fire.
- Angels are not beasts of the field. They were created but were suppose to live in another realm. They only became associated with the dust of the ground when The LORD pronounced the curse upon him.
- In Genesis 6 angels were never mentioned. The word gods was never used to insinuate that God was angry with the angels at that time. Humans humans humans ... were mentioned over and over. And these sons took wives who were of the daughters of men and they had human children who became Men of Renown.
- Yes, men and animals were destroyed in the flood ... but God also chose to save a remnant on the Ark.
I don't know that animals became evil in the way that we might think ... but mankind did of their freewill because they chose to partake of the knowledge of good and evil. Then the ground was cursed and this brought death into the whole world.
Animals missed the mark God had intended for them [known as sin] because Adam caused that. The whole world is out of sorts! It is no longer perfect. IOW, All creatures formed of the elements of the ground and dust have a form of sin in them. I believe Animals may have developed instincts for hunting and killing to survive and sustain their mortal lives. ???? Just drifting here. LOL