ECT Who is not saved?
- Thread starter oatmeal
- Start date
I don't believe we know whether we are saved or not until Jesus' Judgement day or Lord's day.
Jesus is the Judge, not any of us for our fate.
oatmeal
Well-known member
If you do not know if you are saved that is typical of many Christians
However, God makes it clear that we can know if we have received salvation, ie, the gift of eternal life
I John 5:13 points that out
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
It is God's will that we know.
Questions then.
Does anyone want to know?
How does one know?
On the centrally I don't know anyone says they don't know if they are saved.
all mainstream churchgoers say they are saved, in my experience.
In this forum, only Marhig and I claim not anyone knows who are saved.
Obviously, she does not believe a passage like that one.
Nor does she obviously believe any like these, for the same reason...
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
And many others like it.
Note now how Meshak once more will not post what she believes any of those those passages are actually talking about.
Result? There is no hope of any kind of an Acts 17:11, 12 with her. None.
turbosixx
New member
I say those who do not know God or obey Jesus.
2 Thes. 1:8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
Jn. 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
As for how can be know we are saved. If we keep his commandments which is the opposite of not obeying him.
1 Jn. 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
Nope, that is your interpretation of those passages.
That video study continues to await you.
The Tools Needed For Study:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiD7C6KYCd4&app=desktop
Rom. 5:6-11.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Obeying the Gospel is believing.
The word there is believe not obey...just like the first part of the verse.
Keeping His commandments....those He kept...that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled IN US (believers)?
Romans 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
How is it, then, that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for all who believe? Romans 10:4
Those like [MENTION=1746]freelight[/MENTION] who don't believe the Gospel that the Lord Jesus is risen. Those who don't believe that it was an historical event, a nonfiction physical fact, that His corpse was buried in a tomb (about 50 yards away from His cross), and then two days later He wasn't dead anymore and He came out of the tomb. Romans 10:9 KJV is my scripture.
Childlikeness. Matthew 18:3 KJV
oatmeal
Well-known member
I believe you. That is your experience and what you heard others say.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Well your opinion of Meshak is not the subject of this thread.
oatmeal
Well-known member
this is your quote:
"If you do not know if you are saved that is typical of many Christians"
oatmeal
Well-known member
Yes, indeed.
Since those who are saved are children, sons and daughters of God, most certainly scriptural reason would tell us that we should live like children of the most high God.
What an honor and privilege and responsibility!
turbosixx
New member
How is it my interpretation. I just repeated what the bible says.
turbosixx
New member
I agree but what does it mean to believe? If we do not live according to the gospel, do we really believe?
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
I would suggest to you the word is disobey and not like the first part of the verse. Here are the Greek words used in the verse.
Disobey apeitheó
Believe pisteuOn
The same Greek word for disobey is used in this verse.
Romans 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
He is the end of the law because he fulfilled it and nailed it to the cross. Jesus followed the law and told others to as well because that is the law of God they lived under until the cross. It is my understanding that his commandments are not the same commandments of the law. I don't know of anywhere Jesus or his apostles taught the law .
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freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Terms of 'salvation'.........
Terms of 'salvation'.........
Claiming to know if anyone is "saved" or not is a tall order and bordering near presumptuous, also granting that various interpretations, qualifications and definitions for 'terms' exist, even within Christendom, so this is an area I would tread carefully upon no matter how 'orthodox' one assumes their doctrine is, much is still open to personal belief, opinion and assumptions.
You're also making your assessment above on a few dialogues we've had in the main Religion forum on 'resurrection', where I exposit on a more metaphysical figurative 'resurrection', a spiritual one more particularly for this is what Paul teaches in some verses anyways, for one resurrected arises in a spiritual body. - 1 Corinthians 15
The resurrection of Jesus was spiritual, in a spirit body although he could appear more physical to make appearances to his disciples and do things that a resurrected physical body could not do outside of supernatural powers. Therefore a physical resurrection is not necessary from various perspectives, while a spiritual one is essential, and what indeed happens upon the death of the physical body....the spirit rises. (We would further add that 'resurrection' includes the rising to new life in the Spirirt, a rebirth thru divine love, a putting on of immortality, merging as one with the Lord. - this is essentially a spiritual activity, not a carnal one.)
Re: Romans 10:9 - Paul's mention of being 'saved' is one of his own definition further based on his own 'spin' or 'translation' of Deuteronomy 30:12, where YHWH is actually telling his people they have full capacity and ability to obey his laws, since it is in their mouth and their hearts. Paul challenges that and reverses the divine profession to support his own teaching, in other words "never mind what Moses told you to do, just believe my gospel".
Other OT verses Paul uses are basic to a universal faith in God, as in trusting in Deity and calling upon the name of God, truly any theist or spiritualist accepts these principles.
Therefore without knowing me personally, the full extent of my spiritual journey and religious experience thus far for almost 5 decades, neither having read my entire library so far of religious/philosophical commentary, you could not really know if I was 'saved' or not beyond some particular exclusive qualification, bias, dogma or belief based upon predefined terms and conclusions.
Since God is love and looks at the heart, God knows every heart and soul and knows the extent or quality of their salvation, and surely knows those who call upon him, regardless of their race, color, creed, religion or culture. As one continues his search for truth, goodness and beauty, inspired by love and wisdom, God certainly leads and guides his path since He is their source.
Terms of 'salvation'.........
Claiming to know if anyone is "saved" or not is a tall order and bordering near presumptuous, also granting that various interpretations, qualifications and definitions for 'terms' exist, even within Christendom, so this is an area I would tread carefully upon no matter how 'orthodox' one assumes their doctrine is, much is still open to personal belief, opinion and assumptions.
You're also making your assessment above on a few dialogues we've had in the main Religion forum on 'resurrection', where I exposit on a more metaphysical figurative 'resurrection', a spiritual one more particularly for this is what Paul teaches in some verses anyways, for one resurrected arises in a spiritual body. - 1 Corinthians 15
The resurrection of Jesus was spiritual, in a spirit body although he could appear more physical to make appearances to his disciples and do things that a resurrected physical body could not do outside of supernatural powers. Therefore a physical resurrection is not necessary from various perspectives, while a spiritual one is essential, and what indeed happens upon the death of the physical body....the spirit rises. (We would further add that 'resurrection' includes the rising to new life in the Spirirt, a rebirth thru divine love, a putting on of immortality, merging as one with the Lord. - this is essentially a spiritual activity, not a carnal one.)
Re: Romans 10:9 - Paul's mention of being 'saved' is one of his own definition further based on his own 'spin' or 'translation' of Deuteronomy 30:12, where YHWH is actually telling his people they have full capacity and ability to obey his laws, since it is in their mouth and their hearts. Paul challenges that and reverses the divine profession to support his own teaching, in other words "never mind what Moses told you to do, just believe my gospel".
Other OT verses Paul uses are basic to a universal faith in God, as in trusting in Deity and calling upon the name of God, truly any theist or spiritualist accepts these principles.
Therefore without knowing me personally, the full extent of my spiritual journey and religious experience thus far for almost 5 decades, neither having read my entire library so far of religious/philosophical commentary, you could not really know if I was 'saved' or not beyond some particular exclusive qualification, bias, dogma or belief based upon predefined terms and conclusions.
Since God is love and looks at the heart, God knows every heart and soul and knows the extent or quality of their salvation, and surely knows those who call upon him, regardless of their race, color, creed, religion or culture. As one continues his search for truth, goodness and beauty, inspired by love and wisdom, God certainly leads and guides his path since He is their source.