The Vessels of Mercy !

[beloved57]

Did you know some of mankind, not all, are Gods vessels of mercy ? Paul writes of them here Rom 9:21-23

²¹ Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


²² What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:


²³ And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


This afore prepared unto Glory is solely a work of God, and it regards Salvation, the Glorification aspect of it. For instance Paul writes of it here before in Romans 8:30

³⁰ Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom 8:18

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Now Paul says they are afore prepared ! What does that mean ?

It means they were appointed to it [Glory/Salvation] by God from Eternity. It was beforehand decreed in Gods Mind and Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11

¹¹ According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord

As Grace was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9, so likewise was mercy given them in Him, hence its that mercy from everlasting upon them Ps 103:17

¹⁷ But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children

Now how is it Mercy, from everlasting but from the fact it was afore prepared for them due to their Election in Christ Jesus before the foundation.

 

[Epoisses]

God leads all men to repentance. The ones who repent are vessels of mercy and the ones who don't are vessels of wrath. God knows the end from the beginning so he can call someone a 'vessel of wrath' before they live out their life of disobedience. It does not mean that he ordained them to be a vessel of wrath like the ignorant philosophers postulate.

 

[Nanja]

Did you know some of mankind, not all, are Gods vessels of mercy ? Paul writes of them here Rom 9:21-23

²¹ Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


²² What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:


²³ And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


This afore prepared unto Glory is solely a work of God, and it regards Salvation, the Glorification aspect of it. For instance Paul writes of it here before in Romans 8:30

³⁰ Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom 8:18

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Now Paul says they are afore prepared ! What does that mean ?

It means they were appointed to it [Glory/Salvation] by God from Eternity. It was beforehand decreed in Gods Mind and Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11

¹¹ According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord

As Grace was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9, so likewise was mercy given them in Him, hence its that mercy from everlasting upon them Ps 103:17

¹⁷ But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children

Now how is it Mercy, from everlasting but from the fact it was afore prepared for them due to their Election in Christ Jesus before the foundation.

All the Elect, or Christ's Sheep, His Body chosen in union with Him before the foundation to have remission of sins Eph. 1:4-7, Christ was set up as their Head and Surety Heb. 7:22; the Lamb Slain from the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8 and took upon Himself the sins they would commit in time by His Blood Work on their behalf Rom. 5:9-10 Is. 53:6. So, in God's sight they were Legally abjured Righteous from Everlasting; Justified by His resurrection from the dead Heb. 13:20; Rom. 4:25. The same Adopted Sons of God Eph. 1:5 are also referred to as the Vessels of Mercy.

Rom. 9:23
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

It's Christ being their Surety Saviour who brings them to Glory.

Heb. 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

 

[glorydaz]

We aren't left to the false teachings we see here. We need only look to God's word and we are told clearly and plainly what Paul was saying.

Jeremiah 18:6-11
O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; 8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. 9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them. 11 Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.​

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The Lump of Clay

The Lump of Clay

My presupposition regarding creation works from the following assumption concerning the logical ordering of God's decree:

1. Create
2. Permit Fall
3. Elect some, pass over the rest
4. Provide salvation for elect
5. Call elect to salvation

Hence, the "lump of clay" contemplated in God's hands was a fallen lump of clay out of which some are elected to salvation and the rest are left in their fallen state.

B57 works things differently:

1. Elect some, reprobate rest
2. Create
3. Permit Fall
4. Provide salvation for elect
5. Call elect to salvation

To the hyper-Calvinist heretic, the "lump of clay" is neutral, and God elects some to salvation and goes out of His way to make sure the remainder are made reprobate. This is the notion of equal ultimacy, denounced by all orthodox Reformed or Calvinists. The likes of B57, who take that second logical ordering above far beyond what is actually intended, assert that God from all eternity decrees some to sin and damnation and actively intervenes to work sin in their lives, bringing them to damnation by divine initiative. :AMR1:

Both logical views above may be found within Reformed and Calvinist camps. Both have reasoned arguments for support. The first is referred to as infralapsarianism (my view), the second supralapsarianism. However, the difference between B57 and other supralapsarians (like Nang) is that hyper-Calvinists like B57 (Nang is not a hyper-Calvinist) assume equal ultimacy in the decree related to election and reprobation.

All that being said and explained, soon someone will come along thinking himself to be clever and wise by claiming that the hyper-Calvinist is just being a consistent Calvinist. This claim betrays the lack of knowledge of the one so making it, for it omits the proper understanding that the decree also encompasses the establishment of the liberty of spontaneity for all those created by God. Which is to say God's decree includes and establishes the very freedoms moral creatures possess.

AMR

 

[God's Truth]

Did you know some of mankind, not all, are Gods vessels of mercy ? Paul writes of them here Rom 9:21-23

²¹ Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


²² What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:


²³ And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


This afore prepared unto Glory is solely a work of God, and it regards Salvation, the Glorification aspect of it. For instance Paul writes of it here before in Romans 8:30

³⁰ Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom 8:18

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Now Paul says they are afore prepared ! What does that mean ?

It means they were appointed to it [Glory/Salvation] by God from Eternity. It was beforehand decreed in Gods Mind and Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11

¹¹ According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord

As Grace was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9, so likewise was mercy given them in Him, hence its that mercy from everlasting upon them Ps 103:17

¹⁷ But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children

Now how is it Mercy, from everlasting but from the fact it was afore prepared for them due to their Election in Christ Jesus before the foundation.

The plan for salvation was made before the creation of the world.

Salvation has always been about fearing God and obeying Him.

Read this it shows that it matters on whether or not a person repents of their sins. God did not make people to not repent sins. God punishes people who do not repent of their sins.

Jeremiah 18
5Then the word of the LORD came to me. 6He said, “Can I not do with you, Israel, as this potter does?” declares the LORD. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, Israel. 7If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted,10and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.
11“Now therefore say to the people of Judah and those living in Jerusalem, ‘This is what the LORD says: Look! I am preparing a disaster for you and devising a plan against you. So turn from your evil ways, each one of you, and reform your ways and your actions.’ 12But they will reply, ‘It’s no use. We will continue with our own plans; we will all follow the stubbornness of our evil hearts.’ ”

 

[beloved57]

The plan for salvation was made before the creation of the world.

Salvation has always been about fearing God and obeying Him.

Read this it shows that it matters on whether or not a person repents of their sins. God did not make people to not repent sins. God punishes people who do not repent of their sins.

Jeremiah 18
5Then the word of the LORD came to me. 6He said, “Can I not do with you, Israel, as this potter does?” declares the LORD. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, Israel. 7If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted,10and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.
11“Now therefore say to the people of Judah and those living in Jerusalem, ‘This is what the LORD says: Look! I am preparing a disaster for you and devising a plan against you. So turn from your evil ways, each one of you, and reform your ways and your actions.’ 12But they will reply, ‘It’s no use. We will continue with our own plans; we will all follow the stubbornness of our evil hearts.’ ”

Rabbit trail. Do you want to discuss the points made in the OP ?

 

[beloved57]

My presupposition regarding creation works from the following assumption concerning the logical ordering of God's decree:

1. Create
2. Permit Fall
3. Elect some, pass over the rest
4. Provide salvation for elect
5. Call elect to salvation

Hence, the "lump of clay" contemplated in God's hands was a fallen lump of clay out of which some are elected to salvation and the rest are left in their fallen state.

B57 works things differently:

1. Elect some, reprobate rest
2. Create
3. Permit Fall
4. Provide salvation for elect
5. Call elect to salvation

To the hyper-Calvinist heretic, the "lump of clay" is neutral, and God elects some to salvation and goes out of His way to make sure the remainder are made reprobate. This is the notion of equal ultimacy, denounced by all orthodox Reformed or Calvinists. The likes of B57, who take that second logical ordering above far beyond what is actually intended, assert that God from all eternity decrees some to sin and damnation and actively intervenes to work sin in their lives, bringing them to damnation by divine initiative. :AMR1:

Both logical views above may be found within Reformed and Calvinist camps. Both have reasoned arguments for support. The first is referred to as infralapsarianism (my view), the second supralapsarianism. However, the difference between B57 and other supralapsarians (like Nang) is that hyper-Calvinists like B57 (Nang is not a hyper-Calvinist) assume equal ultimacy in the decree related to election and reprobation.

All that being said and explained, soon someone will come along thinking himself to be clever and wise by claiming that the hyper-Calvinist is just being a consistent Calvinist. This claim betrays the lack of knowledge of the one so making it, for it omits the proper understanding that the decree also encompasses the establishment of the liberty of spontaneity for all those created by God. Which is to say God's decree includes and establishes the very freedoms moral creatures possess.

AMR

Rabbit trail. Did you want to discuss the points made in the OP ?

 

[beloved57]

because he delighteth in mercy !

Micah 7:18

Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

Though God delights to show mercy, its restricted to only those He chooses to have mercy upon ! Ex 33:19

19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

Paul quotes this in the NT Rom 9:15

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

The bestowal of Gods mercy isnt determined by the will of men, but only by His Sovereign will and good pleasure. Its reserved for the remnant of His heritage, which He chooses for Himself.

 

[Nanja]

Did you know some of mankind, not all, are Gods vessels of mercy ? Paul writes of them here Rom 9:21-23

²¹ Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


²² What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:


²³ And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


This afore prepared unto Glory is solely a work of God, and it regards Salvation, the Glorification aspect of it. For instance Paul writes of it here before in Romans 8:30

³⁰ Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom 8:18

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Now Paul says they are afore prepared ! What does that mean ?

It means they were appointed to it [Glory/Salvation] by God from Eternity. It was beforehand decreed in Gods Mind and Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11

¹¹ According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord

As Grace was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9, so likewise was mercy given them in Him, hence its that mercy from everlasting upon them Ps 103:17

¹⁷ But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children

Now how is it Mercy, from everlasting but from the fact it was afore prepared for them due to their Election in Christ Jesus before the foundation.

Amen Brother !