:first:
:up:
[ TRUTHSMACK ]
Originally posted by tuxpower
Originally posted by lighthouse
Sozo and tuxpower-
Go back and read what I said! You two are blind! I said that we are saved by grace and not by works. I agree with that. What I said was that sin condemns us, if we live in it. e4e got exactly what I was saying. I am not talking about seeking to live the law, but rather not breaking it.
I know that you think you believe that we are saved by grace lighthouse, but you are saying that breaking God’s law condemns us. That really means that you believe works save us, because you say we are condemned if we violate the law. If you seek to “not break the law” then you are living under the law whether you intend to or not. Keeping your salvation by doing good works is the same as being saved by works in the first place. In other words, if we do good and don’t break God’s laws then we won’t be condemned and we’ll go to heaven. If you are living your life trying not to break the law, then you are subjecting yourself to the law…the whole law.
Are we made righteous by not sinning? No. God in us is what makes us righteous. So many Christians get such a sense of self-righteousness by trying to live their lives according to the law – by trying not to break the law. They think to themselves “Hey, look at me! I’m such a good person b/c I am trying my best not to break God’s laws! I don’t murder, I don’t steal, I don’t lie…God must really be happy with me.” How do I know this? Because I used to be one of them. But God offers us something freely, when we try to put ourselves under the law and we try to do good works it’s like we are trying to pay him back for His gift and it’s an insult. It invalidates the grace for that moment that you put yourself under the law because “Christ will profit you nothing.” Paul says as soon as it’s of works, it can no longer be of grace. When you subject yourself to any part of the law, you subject yourself to the whole law. So the righteousness you thought you had by not breaking the law is really unrighteousness, because you are not keeping the entire law. You aren’t keeping the dietary law, the Sabbath, etc. You can't pick and choose what parts of the law you want to observe. So what many people rely on for their righteousness has in fact condemned them because the law imparts guilt, condemnation, and death. They may not be violating the law in some areas, but they are guilty of not keeping the entire law and are condemned just as if they kept none of it.
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."
“But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith."
“Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."
Originally posted by lighthouse
Breaking God's law condemns us because the wage of sin is death.
Only to those who are under the law, which is not the Body of Christ. We are flesh and spirit. Before we are saved (redeemed by the blood of Jesus) our flesh is under the law of sin and so is our spirit. After we are saved our spirit is redeemed and God identifies us through Jesus the Christ, however our sinful flesh remains with us.
"Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."
"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not."
The flesh has not been made righteous, but your spirit has been.
"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh."
"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."
If a Christian commits adultery, he is committing adultery in his flesh for he cannot commit adultery in his spirit for it has been made righteous.
"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."
The Holy Ghost has sealed my spirit until the day of redemption, for I have been adopted into the Body of Christ.
Originally posted by lighthouse
We can not pretend that sin is okay!
Maybe you should re-read MY post. No one is saying that. I said that God wants us to be motivated by our love for Him, and our desire to please him, not because we are scared of breaking the law and getting caught, for if you are in the Body of Christ you are not under the law. That is where the power of His grace is sufficient. The more I love God and desire to please him, the more my will falls in line with His will, and the temptations no longer hold the power they once did before I was motivated by my love for God, when I was just afraid of getting into trouble.
No one is saying that committing adultery is ok. There are consequences to your flesh for these actions such as broken homes, disease, etc. There are cause and effect punishments for our flesh by the very nature of bad behavior. However my spirit has been made righteous and God identifies me through Jesus Christ. If I commit a fleshly act, my flesh will reap the consequences, but my spirit remains righteous through my faith in Jesus Christ, for God punished Christ on the cross for my sins.
Originally posted by lighthouse
Do you two agree that sin condemns?
Yes. It condemns unbelievers for they are under the law. The law is their tutor to bring them to Christ. But if you are in Christ, you are no longer under a tutor called the law.
“Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.”
Justified by faith, not by keeping the law, or trying not to violate it.
“But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.”
The Body of Christ is no longer under the law. You should not seek to obey the law after you are saved.
[ TRUTHSMACK ]