ECT FAITH ALONE: DID JESUS TEACH IT?
- Thread starter Cruciform
- Start date
Jesus said: Matthew 15:24--"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto
the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
So, Christ was only speaking to the lost sheep of Israel in Matthew through John.
He wasn't speaking to us Gentiles nor the Body of Christ.
the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
So, Christ was only speaking to the lost sheep of Israel in Matthew through John.
He wasn't speaking to us Gentiles nor the Body of Christ.
Cruciform
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Jesus and the apostles went first to Israel. This reflects the order and direction of salvation history: to the Jews first, and then to the Gentiles (Ac. 1:8; Rom. 1:16). After Jesus' Resurrection, the apostles are sent specifically to the Gentiles, that there might be "one flock with one Shepherd" (Jn. 10:16; 11:52).
In any case, the subject of the OP is the unbiblical Protestant notion of sola fide ("faith alone"), not your faddish and fabricated man-made ecclesiology. Try again.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Ezekiel 37:
16. Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and, for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17. And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18. And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19. Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20. And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them
into their own land:
22. And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel ; and one king shall
be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
23. Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces,
wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24. And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's
children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
Daniel 9:
7. O LORD, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.
The Son of Man...
Matthew 1:
1. The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
John 10:
14. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
16. Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and, for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17. And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18. And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19. Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20. And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them
into their own land:
22. And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel ; and one king shall
be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
23. Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces,
wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24. And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's
children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
Daniel 9:
7. O LORD, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.
The Son of Man...
Matthew 1:
1. The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
John 10:
14. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Romanists hate the Second Commandment.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4421388#post4421388
Romanists love treadmills:
http://tinyurl.com/75glvdj
AMR
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So did God, apparently, what with the two cherubim over the ark of the covenant and all of the various paintings and statues in the temple, for the design and building of which He Himself gave instructions.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Romanists hate to dig deeper. Romanists just shoot from the hip, "ready, fire, aim." Above is a post coming in less than two minutes from my response with thorough analysis that apparently was not worth digging into.
The word for "graven image" in Ex. 20:4 is one that is consistently used for a particular kind of carving: an idol (see Lev. 26:1 for multiple terms for idols). The word for "image," used in passages like Gen. 1:26 is different.
And the word for "likeness" in Gen. 1:26 is not the word used in Ex. 20:4. There are some positive uses of the Ex.20:4 term, e.g. Num. 12:8, "With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold...."
The carving/cutting of wood and stone is another term, Ex. 31:5; this passage describes the holy skill of Bezaleel, and his divine appointment to the work (see also v10 with Ex. 28:33). Similar skill was recognized of Solomon's half-breed mastercraftsman, Hiram (sometimes Huram), 2 Ki. 7:13,31. Note that in v36 the following figures were carved (or graved, yet another word): "cherubim, lions, and palm trees, according to the space of each, with wreaths all around." These persons and their skill appear to predate their calling; thus there is the presumption of a legitimate calling to this kind of work even beside their holy commission.
It isn't simply for us to note that there were a handful of "authorized" images, but still a general prohibition against every other possibility. No, but to keep in view that the essence of the Second Commandment is that the true God (exclusively acknowledged and designated in the First Commandment) is not to be worshiped otherwise than in the prescribed manner. The First Commandment effectively dispenses with the false worship of all other gods along with them, without redundantly forbidding their idols as well.
1 Ki.10:19-20 describe carved lions decorating Solomon's throne. This is one of the few times artwork or decoration not found in the worship-precincts is described in the Bible. While I would not be surprised if naysayers set down Solomon's display among his sins, there's nothing in the text that gives the reader pause. This portion of 1 Kings contains the climax of the description of the glories of Solomon, and a negative impression is not called for.
1 Sam. 19:13 describes a "statue" of some kind (using a word typical of "household gods," the kind small enough to hide in a saddle, Gen. 31:34). It is frankly unbelievable that a religiously observant David would have tolerated even small idols in his house, let alone a bust or life-sized idol--something that might have fooled a hasty inspector. So once again, this seems more like decoration and art.
It's true that legalistic superstition and fear may have led later generations to eschew all depicted forms, "just to be on the safe-side." But that sort of hedging the law only has the "appearance of wisdom" (Col. 2:23).
AMR
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Cruciform; [B said:
Let's see some Scripture on that? Paul was sent to the Gentiles by the way.
Ask your Priest or write an E-Mail to the Archdiocese of Rome?
heir
TOL Subscriber
Not to Israel on earth, no, but YES to and through the apostle Paul.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Amen!
Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
heir
TOL Subscriber
:nono: Matthew 10:5-6 KJV, Acts 2:22 KJV, Acts 2:36 KJV
Technically, Paul preached salvation by grace "through faith". Get your terms straight.
Amen
Cruciform
New member
Aside from being straightforward examples of the Straw Man Fallacy, your comments are simply off-topic. Try again.
Cruciform
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Don't bother starting your claims with a sweeping generalization, since no logically-informed individual is going to bother reading beyond it. Try again.
Cruciform
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Post #3
Cruciform
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In fact, neither Jesus nor Paul taught anything even approaching sola fide, which is nothing more than a doctrinally novel man-made invention of 16th-century Protestantism.
Cruciform
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The term (sola fide, "faith alone") is not mine, but rather that of Protestants. Get your facts straight.
Cruciform
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Post #17
But they have a good fish fry and cold beer. I can go to VFW any time. This is a good change of pace.