Did Christ die for the sin of unbelief ?

[beloved57]

Jn 1:29

²⁹ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Now the sin of the world did involve unbelief. Eve didn't believe the truth of God. God had said in the day that you eat you shall surely die. Observe Gen 2:17

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now Gen 3:2-4

And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


as a result of unbelief:


5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

 

[Nanja]

Jn 1:29

²⁹ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Now the sin of the world did involve unbelief. Eve didn't believe the truth of God. God had said in the day that you eat you shall surely die. Observe Gen 2:17

[FONT=&]But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not [/FONT]eat[FONT=&] of it: for in the day that thou [/FONT]eat[FONT=&]est thereof thou shalt surely [/FONT]die[FONT=&].

Now Gen 3:2-4

And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


as a result of unbelief:


5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
[/FONT]

Yes, most assuredly Christ died for the sin of unbelief.

For if He didn't, it would mean that the very first sin committed in Adam, the sin of unbelief / disobedience towards God was not forgiven.

But the Truth is, that all those Christ died for, His Sheep John 10:11, 15; His Church Eph. 5:25; even while being His enemies and unbelievers, were reconciled to God by His Death in their behalf.

Rom. 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Rom. 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience [Adam] many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one [Christ Jesus] shall many be made righteous.

 

[Bright Raven]

Yes, most assuredly Christ died for the sin of unbelief.

For if He didn't, it would mean that the very first sin committed in Adam, the sin of unbelief / disobedience towards God was not forgiven.

But the Truth is, that all those Christ died for, His Sheep John 10:11, 15; His Church Eph. 5:25; even while being His enemies and unbelievers, were reconciled to God by His Death in their behalf.

Rom. 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Rom. 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience [Adam] many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one [Christ Jesus] shall many be made righteous.

He died for all sin

 

[ttruscott]

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

HIS sheep are those who hear and recognize His voice, ie they are His sheep, in His flock, they have faith in Him but have gone astray into sin. That is, they are those believers in Jn 3:18 who are NOT condemned. They were never condemned. They will never face HIS wrath because they are under the promise of election to be saved from their sins, the sins of believers whose faith has been destroyed by their choice to sin but they can be brought back to that first faith by Christ's sacrifice on their behalf.

Those whose sin was the sin of unbelief, unfaith in Him as their saviour, are condemned already from the moment they sinned. As condemned already, Christ dying 'for them' has no meaning as it does not change their condemnation. And by choosing to put their faith in YHWH being a false god and a liar they have self created themselves as eternally evil by sinning the unforgivable sin...unforgivable because they have rejected HIS forgiveness by their free will which HE won't change and they cannot save themselves. What would be the purpose of dying for these who are beyond redemption?

IF HE DIED FOR ALL then it is obvious that some He died for are in hell. That implies that some who could be saved are indeed, not saved from destruction. Why not? Wherein is HIS effort to save them by dying for them foiled? By their intransigence against belief? But if HE wanted them to be saved, why does HE end their time of accepting that salvation to be such a short time. Is HE not in charge of how long we live?
Psalm 139:16
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

Job 14:5
The length of our life has been decided.
You alone know how long that is.
You have set the limits for us and nothing can change them.

Why not set the limits of their life to a billion years instead of from a few moments to just over a hundred years? It is not logical that the GOD who is love, who does not want to see anyone perish and who takes no pleasure in the (eternal) death of anyone cuts off the time of their repentance after so short a time! Two billion years would be nothing to HIM If they can be saved!

GOD is love.
Love is patient.
HIS patience can no more end than HIS loving righteousness can end.

My contention is that anyone in hell proves some cannot be saved for one reason or another. IF they could be saved I contend that HIS character (HIS good Name) would have HIM save them, ie, HE would do anything to save them even more than just dying for them. The doctrine that HE died for them but they are not saved because HE could not wait for them to repent but cut them off short sounds like a blasphemy against HIS Name and HIS desire to save them.

 

[beloved57]

[h=2]Did Christ die for the sin of unbelief ?[/h]
Now unbelief and disobedience are relatively the same thing. Unbelief is called not obeying here 2 Thess 1:8

⁸ In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Now to obey not is disobedience

Jn 3:36

He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.

Believes not here in the greek is the word ἀπειθέω:

I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity

Now disobedience s the parent sin in adam Rom 5:19 which began with eve not believing God because of the serpents seduction, hence she believed his [the serpents lie] over Gods Truth. Recall what God had said what would happen if they ate of that particular tree, that "ye shall surely die Gen 2:16-17 and the serpent said to her the opposite to Gods Truth Gen 3:1-6. This is the beginning of the parent sin of unbelief/disobedience which all by nature are imprisoned to Rom 11:31-32

³¹ Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.


³² For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

So now to say Christ didnt die for unbelief, is to deny Christ died for mans sin in adam, which contradicts scripture truth Rom 5:15-16


¹⁵ But not as the offence [unbelief/disobedience], so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.


¹⁶ And not as it was by one that sinned[disobedience/unbelief], so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Christ took away the sin of the world Jn 1:29, but if they who He died for are condemned for unbelief, Jn 1:29 is a lie !

 

[intojoy]

All unbelieved at one point.


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[MennoSota]

[h=2]Did Christ die for the sin of unbelief ?[/h]
Now unbelief and disobedience are relatively the same thing. Unbelief is called not obeying here 2 Thess 1:8

⁸ In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Now to obey not is disobedience

Jn 3:36

He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.

Believes not here in the greek is the word ἀπειθέω:

I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity

Now disobedience s the parent sin in adam Rom 5:19 which began with eve not believing God because of the serpents seduction, hence she believed his [the serpents lie] over Gods Truth. Recall what God had said what would happen if they ate of that particular tree, that "ye shall surely die Gen 2:16-17 and the serpent said to her the opposite to Gods Truth Gen 3:1-6. This is the beginning of the parent sin of unbelief/disobedience which all by nature are imprisoned to Rom 11:31-32

³¹ Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.


³² For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

So now to say Christ didnt die for unbelief, is to deny Christ died for mans sin in adam, which contradicts scripture truth Rom 5:15-16


¹⁵ But not as the offence [unbelief/disobedience], so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.


¹⁶ And not as it was by one that sinned[disobedience/unbelief], so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Christ took away the sin of the world Jn 1:29, but if they who He died for are condemned for unbelief, Jn 1:29 is a lie !

You have not been honest with Romans 11. The "all" in verse 32 is all Israel. Paul defines Israel as all those whom God has, by grace, chosen to be a part of Christ. Both Jew and Gentile.
Romans 11:13-32

13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27 “and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. 32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

Paul has spent all of Romans presenting how God's elect are to live. He expresses how the unregenerate are condemned while the elect can not be condemned because Jesus has paid for the elect.

 

[beloved57]

You have not been honest with Romans 11. The "all" in verse 32 is all Israel. Paul defines Israel as all those whom God has, by grace, chosen to be a part of Christ. Both Jew and Gentile.
Romans 11:13-32

Paul has spent all of Romans presenting how God's elect are to live. He expresses how the unregenerate are condemned while the elect can not be condemned because Jesus has paid for the elect.

Evasion and Rabbit trail. Do you want to discuss the post points?

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[MennoSota]

Evasion and Rabbit trail. Do you want to discuss the post points?

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The evasion is entirely yours. Don't turn the Bible into your little prooftext party. Be honest with scripture or don't quote it at all.
As another poster mentioned, God's atonement is for all sins, but it is limited to all sins of the elect. Those whom God has not grafted in to the Israel of God have none of their sins forgiven. Not one sin of the unregenerate will ever be forgiven. They are wholly guilty.
In contrast, every person whom God elects to adopt has all their sins forgiven (unbelief will not exist in the elect because God gives them the gift of faith).

 

[beloved57]

All unbelieved at one point.


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Did you want to discuss the points made ?

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[Nanja]

[h=2]Did Christ die for the sin of unbelief ?[/h]
Now unbelief and disobedience are relatively the same thing. Unbelief is called not obeying here 2 Thess 1:8

⁸ In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Now to obey not is disobedience

Jn 3:36

He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.

Believes not here in the greek is the word ἀπειθέω:

I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity

Now disobedience s the parent sin in adam Rom 5:19 which began with eve not believing God because of the serpents seduction, hence she believed his [the serpents lie] over Gods Truth. Recall what God had said what would happen if they ate of that particular tree, that "ye shall surely die Gen 2:16-17 and the serpent said to her the opposite to Gods Truth Gen 3:1-6. This is the beginning of the parent sin of unbelief/disobedience which all by nature are imprisoned to Rom 11:31-32

³¹ Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.


³² For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

So now to say Christ didnt die for unbelief, is to deny Christ died for mans sin in adam, which contradicts scripture truth Rom 5:15-16


¹⁵ But not as the offence [unbelief/disobedience], so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.


¹⁶ And not as it was by one that sinned[disobedience/unbelief], so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Christ took away the sin of the world Jn 1:29, but if they who He died for are condemned for unbelief, Jn 1:29 is a lie !

Amen ! It is the sin of unbelief [Gr.apeitheo] /disobedience which all other sin stems from, that the Lamb of God came to take away from the World John 1:29.

So the false teaching that those Christ died for, Chosen to Salvation in Christ Eph. 1:13-14 and Belief of the Truth 2 Thes. 2:13, can be condemned because of their unbelief is a lie Rom. 8:1. And the act of believing an unregenerate person does, not only does it not contribute to his salvation, and cannot please God Rom. 8:8, but his making his own act of believing a contributory factor in salvation is antichrist Eph. 2:9 !

 

[beloved57]

Amen ! It is the sin of unbelief [Gr.apeitheo] /disobedience which all other sin stems from, that the Lamb of God came to take away from the World John 1:29.

So the false teaching that those Christ died for, Chosen to Salvation in Christ Eph. 1:13-14 and Belief of the Truth 2 Thes. 2:13, can be condemned because of their unbelief is a lie Rom. 8:1. And the act of believing an unregenerate person does, not only does it not contribute to his salvation, and cannot please God Rom. 8:8, but his making his own act of believing a contributory factor in salvation is antichrist Eph. 2:9 !

Amen Sister Nanja!

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[beloved57]

Now the sinners Christ died for cannot be charged or have laid to their account unbelief/disobedience, and here's why ! Christ death was a covenantal death, according to the stipulations of the everlasting covenant Heb 13:20 which is also known in time as the New Covenant or Testament Matt 26:28. Now one of the promises of this death is this Heb 8:12

¹² For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. Well unbelief is a unrighteousness, so God has promised to be merciful to their unrighteousness/unbelief. Same as in Rom 11:32

³² For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

So for God to condemn any sinner Christ died for, for unbelief makes God a liar !

 

[intojoy]

God forgives unbelief based upon coming to faith. In other words unbelievers are not forgiven unless they believe. Selah


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[beloved57]

God forgives unbelief based upon coming to faith. In other words unbelievers are not forgiven unless they believe. Selah


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Invalid comment not in scripture and rabbit trail

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[Chaplain98]

This is great , more grace .

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[Nanja]

Now the sinners Christ died for cannot be charged or have laid to their account unbelief/disobedience, and here's why ! Christ death was a covenantal death, according to the stipulations of the everlasting covenant Heb 13:20 which is also known in time as the New Covenant or Testament Matt 26:28. Now one of the promises of this death is this Heb 8:12

¹² For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. Well unbelief is a unrighteousness, so God has promised to be merciful to their unrighteousness/unbelief. Same as in Rom 11:32

³² For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

So for God to condemn any sinner Christ died for, for unbelief makes God a liar !

Christ Jesus died as the Great Shepherd Heb. 13:20 for all the sins of His Sheep, which included the sin of unbelief which they partook of when they sinned in their Federal Head Adam.


beloved57

So for God to condemn any sinner Christ died for, for unbelief makes God a liar !

Yessir ! Because of God Mercy, all those Christ died for shall be delivered from unbelief, no exceptions, because they were chosen to believe the Truth and sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thes. 2:13, and the Faith Given them in New Birth Gal. 5:22 bears evidence of it.

 

[beloved57]

The elect of God, like all men are naturally born into this world in unbelief, for Paul writing of the elect from out of both the jews and gentiles writes Rom 11:32

32 [FONT=&quot]For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Yet God had a merciful purpose for doing that to the elect, not to condemn them in that state, but the very opposite, to have mercy upon them for being in that state. Understand as well that the word unbelief here also is rendered and means [/FONT]disobedience. Its the greek word apeitheia. The word apeithēs means:

impersuasible, not compliant, disobedient, contumacious

obstinacy, obstinate opposition to the divine will, disbelief (obstinate and rebellious)

Its this state God imprisoned the elect in for the purpose of mercy !

 

[beloved57]

Now being in unbelief means a few things spiritually for all sinners naturally. Naturally the elect as well as the non elect are spiritually blind to the spiritual things of God Eph 4:18

[FONT=&quot]Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the [/FONT]blindness of their heart:

2 Cor 4:4

[FONT=&quot]In whom the god of this world hath [/FONT]blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Secondly, the elect by nature in unbelief have hardness of heart towards God and spiritual matters. In fact the word blindness in Eph 4:18 is the grreek word pōrōsisand means:

stupidity or callousness:—blindness, hardness.

Paul writing of jews by nature writes Rom 2:5

[FONT=&quot]But after thy[/FONT]hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

However that doesnt just apply to the unregenerate jews, but to unregenerate gentiles as well, who are in unbelief.

And thirdly to be in unbelief is to be spiritually alienated from the life of God Eph 4:18

[FONT=&quot]Having the understanding darkened, being [/FONT]alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Col 1:21

[FONT=&quot]And you, that were sometime [/FONT]alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

This is how God finds His elect for the purpose of mercy !

 

[beloved57]

The mercy that God had upon the elect is a mercy towards from everlasting unto everlasting Ps 103:17

17 [FONT=&quot]But the mercy of the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT] is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif], and his righteousness unto children's children;[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]This constituted them the vessels of mercy Rom 9:23

[/FONT]23 [FONT=&quot]And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Now with this in mind, men and women who are condemned already which believe not Jn 3:18

[/FONT]18 [FONT=&quot]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

These cannot be of the elect, the vessels of mercy, because they wont be condemned while in unbelief since God consigned the in unbelief for the purpose of having mercy upon them Rom 11:32.[/FONT]