ARCHIVE: The "anty"christ is killing us!

ChristisKing

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In both the Yates and Laney child mass murder cases a common denominator is that both were extremely religious and both had pastors who were fanatical about the dipensatioanl arminian rapture nonsense. Yates' pastor roamed the country with his family preaching arminian dispensationalism (the beast is coming) on college campuses, being at first welcome by the colleges, but then asked to leave due to his controversial tactics. Laney's pastor preached that the "anty"christ had arrived, the sunday before Laney stoned her children, preaching "you can see it by the Elizabeth Smart and Lacey Peterson cases as well as many other cases."

The arminian dispensational theology teaches that salvation is in your hands not God's, there is an age of accountability for children and if they die before reaching this age then they will go to heaven (with no scripture to support this), and that the beast and "anty"christ are coming and "indeed here already" and we must "bunker down" and wait for the rapture (again without scriptural support).

I think, before any more parents lovingly "protect their children from satan", that we need to speak out against this sensationalistic nonsense and the preachers who are preaching it. This false theology has seeped through into mainstream Christianity in America and it is literally "killing us!"

Obviously the women were mentally unstable already, but teaching people like this a distorted urgent world-ending message of catastrophic proportions in the name of "Christianity" is ridiculously ill responsible, reckless, and obviously very dangerous.
Yeahhh okkk, they have "the right" I guess to preach this nonsense, but at least Christians can begin speaking and preaching out against it.

I mean preachers bear responsibility for what they are preaching don't they? They are not above reproach, are they? Many of them are "self educated," "self-ordained," and basically unqualified to preach the gospel. But they wrap themselves around the church and scream they are unreproachable because "God sent them!" When in fact, upon a casual reading of the Word of God it appears that God is really against many of them.

I for one want to speak out against them!

I believe our salvation is in God's hands. I believe He will give faith to His elect of whom He has predestined before creation. I believe when He draws His elect to Christ that Christ accepts us as His and never loses us. In other words, I believe God is in control, not us!

I believe that the beast and "anty"christ spoken of in scripture were Rome and it's leaders. I believe that the scriptures teach the gospel and conversions are going to spread over the entire earth and even the Jews will come to Christ. This will result in great improvements over the entire earth in all fields and disciplines and nations as they convert to Christ. In other words, I believe God is in process of making the world better, and has not abandoned the earth to let satan make it worse.

I believe this is the theolgy of the bible, and it gives us great rest and an optimistic biblical worldview of the world. It also gives us encouragement to have and raise godly children to be used by God to bring the world into submission unto Christ, not to kill them to protect them from the "anty"christ!
 

billwald

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I have talked to thousands of state certified crazies. At least half want to talk about Christian religion and many mention that some relative was a pastor, missionary . . . .
 

Shaun

New member
make mine on the rocks

make mine on the rocks

billwald,
That's a nice twist of Argumentum ad Popularum you've got there. Does it come with Pina Coladas as well?
 

Prisca

Pain Killer
Super Moderator
ChristisKing
You said, “I believe our salvation is in God's hands. I believe He will give faith to His elect of whom He has predestined before creation. I believe when He draws His elect to Christ that Christ accepts us as His and never loses us. In other words, I believe God is in control, not us!

Then I guess it doesn’t matter what those preachers preached or what those women did to their children – it was all a part of God’s plan.
 

Crow

New member
Originally posted by Becky
ChristisKing


Then I guess it doesn’t matter what those preachers preached or what those women did to their children – it was all a part of God’s plan.

Heck, we might as well fire all the pastors, shut the site down, and rent out the churches. If it's all been pre-decided who gets saved, why are we even bothering? Really, if it's pre-determined who's going to get saved, what are we even here on earth for? Just fold everything up and ship everyone off to their predetermined destination in their preconceived states.:kookoo:
 

TheMessenger

New member
There are many antichrist's out there and have been since the time of Christ. See 1 John 4:3. The antichrist spoken of in Revelation 13 has not yet appeared on the world scene but he is indeed coming and may even be in the world today.
 

Clete

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Silver Subscriber
ChristisKing!

Do you have a problem with Arminian theology, Dispensational theology, or both?

They are two different things ya know!
 

tuxpower

New member
Originally posted by TheMessenger
There are many antichrist's out there and have been since the time of Christ. See 1 John 4:3. The antichrist spoken of in Revelation 13 has not yet appeared on the world scene but he is indeed coming and may even be in the world today.
Don't forget about Daniel 7
 

ChristisKing

New member
Man-centered vs. God-centered

Man-centered vs. God-centered

I think both are egotistical man (woman)-centered nonsense that seek to glorify man and inflate our time as "the time" at the expense of God's glory and our childrens lives!
 

Clete

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ChristisKing,

I'm having a difficult time understanding why your obvious hostility is being directed at Arminians or Dispensationalists! While I agree that there are many irresponsible teachings and teachers out there, I don't believe that a rational case could be made to show that a higher percentage of Arminian believers are wacko versus any other group. In fact, it has been my experience with dispensational teaching/teachers that they are the most unemotional, fact based, and thoughtful of any theological group.
 
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ChristisKing

New member
Jesus loves you!

Jesus loves you!

Clete,

My hostility stems from being saved and taught in a church for over 30 years the arminian and premill-dispensationalist theology.

I could never find the rapture doctrine that they taught in scripture so I was always being reassured, by those "in the know", that I would be enlightened if I just kept studying.

Well, I kept studying!

And not only did I discover that the premill-dispensationalist theology was unscriptural but I was amazed to discover that it was actually a relatively "new" theology. It was developed by a little retarded girl in Scotland in the 1800's named Margaret MacDonald.

I discovered that the premill-dispensationalist theology was completely unscriptural and was not the doctrine of the early church or of the church fathers. I discovered that what I had been taught for over 30 years as "absolute truth" was actually the babblings of a retarded girl that resulted in much damage to the church.

The most damage resulting from Margaret's visions that I discovered is the doctrine of the reinstitution of the sacrificial system in Israel for 1000 years after the rapture. This doctrine stems from their belief that the Israelites are the "true people of God" and us Gentiles are only a "by-thought" of God and that us Gentiles need to be taken away off the earth so the "true people of God" can begin worshipping God again!

Of course the "free-willyism's" of arminian theology are woven inseparably into and throughout this theology which steals away from Jesus Christ the once and for all sacrifice He made for all His people.

I discovered that scripture teaches that God had predestined to send Jesus Christ to die for all His people before He created anything.

I discovered that Jesus Christ taught that all who God brought to Him were "His people."

I discovered that scripture teaches the sacrifices of animals were only shadows of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and that His sacrifice did away with all sacrifices.

I discovered that Jesus Christ taught that "no man could come to Him unless that Father drew him, and that all that the Father drew would come to Christ." This meant that salvation was in God's hands as opposed to the arminian theology that teaches salvation is in mans hands. This truth prevented me from killing my children before they reached "the age of accountability" and "free-willed" to reject Christ. Instead I could now rest in God!

I discovered that God had chosen me and all His people to salvation in Christ before creation because He loved us and therefore we were and are not "by-products or by-thoughts of God."

I discovered that instead of the pessimistic dooms-day comic strip of pre-mill dispensationalism that scripture teaches an optimistic conquering of the entire earth by the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I discovered that the "free-willy" doctrines of arminians have resulted in millions thinking they have "chosen Christ" when it is obvious by their lives that He has not chosen them. What a great deception that has infiltrated the church to cause millions to think that by "walking down the aisle" and "praying the sinners prayer" that they have now earned eternal life.

So, call me hostile, but I get angry when people steal from Jesus Christ, deceive millions, call me a "by-thought of God", exalt man's will above God's will, and then claim to be "teachers called by God."

Maybe I should quit studying the scriptures and "just believe" and smile and say Jesus loves you.
:)
 
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Clete

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ChristisKing,

Your emotionalism is overshadowing your judgement! There a many differing positions that Christians take on many different topics. None of these doctrinal positions can be rightly accussed of causing someone to murder their children. A wacko is a wacko not because he or she is an Arminian or a Calvanist but because they stop using their God given brain and start using their emotional state of mind to make decisions. The very road you are now on!
In other words don't let the wacko fringe make your mind up for you. Instead..."Come let us REASON together."

I won't take the time to respond to every point you brought up in your last post (primarily because it isn't necessary). Instead, I would love to see how you would respond to points that have already been made...

If God has predestined all who will be saved and none of them could possibly not be saved(sorry about the double negative here!:) ) then why do I want to spend the effort in attempting to convert anyone or is that effort predestined as well?

And if everything, every thought, every action that everyone takes has been predestined by God then why are you mad at Arminians? Didn't God predestine them to believe in free will? (or to kill their children?) Seems like your problem is with God not Arminians.
 
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ChristisKing

New member
Don't worry......Be Happy!

Don't worry......Be Happy!

Clete,

The Holy Spirit has answered all your questions in the scriptures.

Search them and see for yourself.

The Apostle Paul wrote that he was excited to know that God had chosen him to bring in the elect. In other words the salvation of the elect is guaranteed because of what Christ did for them/us, as Paul wrote, and God determined to call and save them/us through the foolishness of preaching.

You ask why?

God says, to humble the proud.

You say if they are predestined they don't need Christ or preaching. But God says He predestined Christ to be THE WAY to save His people from their sins! I like God's way!

You say don't be mad at arminians just smile and let false teachings abound. I say ideas have consequences. And the idea of an "age of accountability" and "man as Sovereign over his salvation" is leading to the killing of children in the extreme cases, and the false sense of security of salvation in the majority of cases.

Either way it is dangerous to the souls of men.

:)
 

Clete

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Re: Don't worry......Be Happy!

Re: Don't worry......Be Happy!

ChristisKing,

With all due respect, if you're right then God has predestined me to believe in freewill.

He has also predestined abortion, child molestation, rape, murder, the existence of gay bars,the existence of alley ways behind gay bars, the activities that go on in the alley ways behind gay bars. Etc.

As C.S. Lewis wrote..."If God predestined anything, then surely He predestined everything."

Thank God Lewis at least had the presence of mind to use the word "If"! Or was that predestined too?

Here a few other things God must have predestined....

Satan, the fall of Adam and Eve, everyone prior to the flood, Sodom, Gamorah, Nineveh, Pharaoh (all of them), the Black Plague, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, The French Revolution, George Bush SR, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, George Bush Jr, Asoma Bin Laden, 9/11, old men running down 40+ people in a shopping mall in California, babies being killed and/or orphaned by drunk drivers, drunk driving, cocaine, meth, the worst thing that has ever happened to you (whatever that might be), me making this argument, you being so mad at me you can't see straight!, whether or not you will respond to this post (you think you have a choice but you don't!) It's all been decided, before the foudations of the world were laid!

Predestined IN CHRIST!
Clete
 
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ChristisKing

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Plan B

Plan B

Clete,

You and C.S. are right, He predestined everything!

ACT 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

ACT 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
ACT 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

REV 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The Holy Spirit clearly teaches us that Christ was plan A and never plan B! Therefore Christ was slain before the creation of the world, determined by God before creation, by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God to die for His people.

Therefore if God predestined Christ to die for our sins, then He must have predestined that Adam would fall. Now notice here, God didn't cause Adam to fall, Adam fell of his own free will (of which free will was also lost in the fall). But God planned it all. God could have created Adam not to fall, just like He did His Holy Angels. But He didn't.

But I'm sure you MUST know why?

Scripture teaches Christ was predestined to receive ALL the glory and not man!

If sin was not predestined, neither was Christ.

See Clete, you can't have Christ without sin! Now, to be consistent with your arminian man-centered Sovereignty beliefs you must conclude that Christ was never predestined and instead was God's afterthought. Gee....it's too bad God couldn't get it right in plan A huh?. I guess we just messed up all of God's plans by our Sovereign wills ..... huh?

Boy we sure all powerful aren't we?
 

Clete

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Silver Subscriber
I am not an Arminian!

And your statements are unbiblical and blasphemous!

God is not the author of sin. He did not predestine Adam and Eve to sin or anyone else for that matter. And as for this notion of God not getting "plan A" right! There was no "plan A".

God wanted for things to be a certain way but those He wanted as friends chose to be enemies. He therefore reacted with a predetermined plan of action and thereby defeated His enemies!

Let me put it in the form of an analogy:

Which chess player would have to be better?
One who's opponent could only move where he had predetermined in advance that he could move, and therefore won every time? Or one who dispite allowing his opponent to move in what way he wished still defeated him soundly every time through skill, experience, wisdom, and pure power!?

And by the way, in case you didn't get it before. If you believe as you say you do then your beef is with God, not Arminian wackos. God did it eons ago before Arminian or Calvanist theology existed! And despite what you say, whether or not God predestined it arbitrarily or through "forknowledge", if it was predestined at all, then it is set in stone and we have no free will.

Resting in Him
Clete
 
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ChristisKing

New member
E=MC2

E=MC2

Clete,

"God wanted for things to be a curtain way but those He wanted as freinds chose to be enemies. He therefore reacted with a predetermined plan of action and thereby defeated His enemies!"

WHAT?

:confused:
 

Clete

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God created the universe and everything in it. His purpose for do so (one of them anyway) was so that He could have relationships with people. Perhaps even friendships with some if not many. In order for this to be possible these people had to have the ability to refuse that relationship, to say "Thanks, but no thanks." Otherwise it wouldn't be a relationship!
In other words, love must be volitional (a choice). Without an alternative then there is no choice. Therefore without the possibility of hating, love cannot exist.
God knew all of this before He created anything or anyone. So, because there was about to be the possibility of rebelion, God predetermined in advance that in the event of humans rebelling, He (that is, God the Son) would be the sacrifice to redeem those who choose to believe (to love Him).

Deut. 30:15-20 "15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live. 20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days:..."


Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was in a bit of a hurry. Maybe this has cleared it up.

Holy, because He is Holy;
Clete
 
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ChristisKing

New member
He saves us before we can love Him

He saves us before we can love Him

Clete,

The verse you quoted was God's commandment to His people whom He had saved and to whom He has given His law;

"Deut. 30:15-20 "15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. "

When God saves us our wills are set free to obey Him. Before we are saved our wills are not free but are held captive to to Satan's bidding always.

2TI 2:25 ... if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2TI 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

You see Clete, God saves us before we can love Him. This is grace. He doesn't save us because we love Him.

ROM 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 

Mateo

New member
a third possiblility

a third possiblility

Gentlemen,

Do you think it's possible that both things could be true? We have free will and yet God, who is unencumbered by time, knows what choices we will make and has encorporated our future choices into a plan and purpose that predates the creation?

wondrin' out loud
 
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